Author Topic: Entretiens avec Ranjit Maharaj  (Read 3562 times)

Crow

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 3832
Entretiens avec Ranjit Maharaj
« on: Marzo 19, 2009, 09:43:55 am »
RANJIT MAHARAJ


 
 
Ranjit Maharaj
Bretagne, 1996

Entretiens avec Ranjit Maharaj
Paris, 17 Mai, 1998

Cuestion : J'adhère complètement à ce que vous dites Maharaj, mais parfois dans le lâcher-prise du sommeil, j'éprouve un sentiment intense, je me vois à la porte de la mort. Je sais que c'est une ouverture merveilleuse, mais en fait j'ai une réaction de panique et en dépit de toutes mes pratiques de méditation, ce sentiment de peur perdure. Comment vaincre cette peur de disparaître, de me fondre ?
 
Ranjit Maharaj : C'est parce que vous ne voulez pas être cela. À cause de l'ignorance, vous vous demandez : " si je quitte ceci, que va-t-il se passer ? ", mais puisque tout cela n'est pas vrai, pourquoi s'inquiéter ? Pourquoi avoir peur de ce qui n'est pas, peur de quitter ce rien ? Ce qui n'est pas, ne sera jamais. Vous acceptez cette peur dans votre mental car vous pensez que le monde est vrai. Cette peur est due à un manque de compréhension, elle est créée par le mental qui ne veut pas mourir. Vous vous demandez ce qu'il va rester si le mental meurt, mais dans le sommeil profond, que reste-t-il ? dites-moi ? Rien. De même ici, si vous dormez au monde, comment la peur pourrait-elle se maintenir ? Alors que vous êtes dans l'état de veille, dites-vous que tout cela n'est pas vrai. D'ailleurs même si dans l'état de veille vous affirmez que le rêve est vrai, cela ne le rendra pas réel pour autant ! Peut-il, par exemple vous revenir une fois qu'il a disparu ? Tant que la peur est là, cela veut dire que le mental n'accepte pas que tout n'est rien, que tout est faux. C'est la faiblesse du mental, mais il doit l'accepter. Tant que celui-ci se maintient, l'ego se maintient également. L'ego fausse votre vision mais dès qu'il disparaît, la réalité est là. Il dissimule la réalité car il dit : " je suis quelque chose ". Enseignez-vous à vous-même que " je " n'existe pas, je ne suis pas. Si vous n'êtes pas, les autres ne sont pas non plus. Mais si vous dites : " je suis ceci, ce corps " etc. alors les autres apparaissent aussi comme étant vrais. Oubliez la peur. " Je n'existe pas " alors qui d'autre pourrait être ? Seule la réalité est. Si la peur est là, c'est qu'il y a une faute de compréhension. Renforcez votre mental jusqu'à ce que la peur disparaisse, elle n'existe que parce que vous pensez que le monde est réel. Si vous tuez le serpent, la peur disparaîtra ; peut-il encore vous effrayer lorsqu'il est mort ? Il n'y a ni bon ni mauvais car il n'y a rien, et si vous ressentez cela profondément, vous n'aurez plus peur. En fait le serpent n'a jamais existé, mais tant que vous avez peur, cela veut dire que vous le considérez comme réel. Le mental est terrible, car il crée la peur ! Oubliez la peur et vous êtes hors des griffes du mental, vous serez non-mental. Non-mental veut dire pas de concepts. Enseignez à votre propre mental que rien n'est vrai, la peur disparaîtra alors.

Q : Vous parlez toujours d'oublier, je voudrais savoir comment oublier.
 
RM : Quand vous dormez, vous oubliez, n'est-ce pas ? De même, dormez au monde alors que vous êtes éveillé, comprenez simplement qu'il n'est pas vrai. Tout est zéro ! En philosophie vous devez comprendre votre propre mort : " je n'existe pas ". C'est cela la philosophie. Tant que vous pensez : " je suis là ", vous ne pouvez pas oublier. Dans un rêve, vous faites tant de choses mais existent-elles ? Quand vous vous réveillez, dites-vous : " j'ai fait quelque chose de bon ou de mauvais " ? De même, alors que vous êtes éveillé, comprenez que ce que vous faites, ce que vous êtes n'est rien, tout est faux ! Où êtes vous, pouvez-vous me le montrer ? Êtes-vous le corps, le mental ? Que pouvez-vous montrer quand tout cela n'est rien ? Tant que le corps est là, vous devez agir et ressentir ; faites-le mais en sachant que ce n'est pas vrai. Tant que les yeux sont là, ils doivent voir, mais sachez que ce qu'ils voient n'est pas vrai. Tout ce que je peux voir et ressentir n'est pas la réalité. La douleur arrive au corps, elle doit venir, mais comprenez que c'est au corps qu'elle arrive et pas à moi. Essayez de vous désidentifier du corps : " ce n'est pas ma douleur, le corps n'est pas moi. " Votre conviction profonde doit être : " ce n'est pas mon corps, je ne fais rien, je ne suis rien, je n'existe pas. Je ne suis ni le nom ni le corps ni le mental. " Agissez avec tous ces instruments mais comprenez que vous n'êtes pas eux. C'est ce qu'on appelle le non-conditionné, le non-attaché. Vous prenez ces conditions comme étant vous-même et vous dites : cela est mien etc. Par exemple, un homme et une femme qui ont eu un enfant chacun de leur côté avant de se marier, disent : " celui-ci est le mien, celui-là le tien. " Ils ne comprennent pas qu'ils sont Un, l'ego fait toutes ces séparations alors que tout n'est qu'Un. Tous sont vous-même, si vous comprenez cela, à qui adresser de bonnes ou de mauvaises paroles ?

Q : Comment oublier ce qui n'existe pas ?

RM : C'est très facile d'oublier ce qui n'existe pas. Quel nom donnerez-vous au fils d'une femme stérile ? Il n'existe pas, il n'y a donc pas de problème. Supposez que vous faites un rêve, au réveil vous l'oubliez instantanément, n'est ce pas ? Quand vous comprenez que rien n'est vrai, comment les choses peuvent-elles persister ? Comment oublier ce qui n'est pas ? Par la compréhension, vous oubliez tout. Le monde n'existe pas. Même les scientifiques disent que le monde que vous voyez n'est nulle part. Par un simple changement d'état, dans le sommeil par exemple, le monde devient zéro. Au réveil il démarre comme une télévision, vous appuyez sur le bouton et le film apparaît, vous éteignez et le film disparaît. Le mental est responsable de tout cela. S'il dit : " c'est là ", alors c'est là ; s'il dit : " ce n'est pas ", alors rien n'est. Soyez en certain, tout dépend du mental. Dès qu'il dit que le monde n'est pas vrai, c'est très facile d'oublier. Combien de temps cela prend-il ? Vous n'oubliez pas pour la simple raison que vous le considérez vrai. Vous voyez le rêve mais quand vous vous réveillez, vous dites vous-même qu'il n'est pas réel. De même, quand vous comprenez ce qu'est le monde, où il a commencé et où il finira, vous l'oubliez. L'origine du monde est le zéro, l'espace ; de là un concept a jailli et le monde entier est créé. C'est exactement comme lorsque vous êtes dans le sommeil profond : soudain une pensée émerge et le rêve se déroule. Le monde est un long rêve et si vous comprenez que c'est un rêve, une illusion, que quoiqu'il arrive ce n'est pas vrai, vous l'oubliez facilement. Si vous ne comprenez pas, alors le monde est vrai pour vous. Le mental est un facteur étonnant, il peut passer d'une pensée positive à une pensée négative en un instant, il est toujours changeant.

Si vous oubliez le mental, vous serez heureux ; c'est l'unique facteur qui crée toutes les souffrances et tous les plaisirs également. Comprenez que le mental lui-même n'est pas vrai : mental veut dire pensées, et les pensées vont et viennent. Le mental ne crée que la confusion, rien d'autre. Celui qui est non-mental n'est plus dans la confusion. Essayez d'oublier ce qui n'est pas vrai, c'est le seul remède. C'est ainsi que l'illusion disparaîtra, sinon elle persistera sous une forme ou une autre. Le mental vit dans la peur permanente : " que va-t-il se passer ou ne pas se passer ? que faire ou ne pas faire ? ". Être ou ne pas être est toujours la question pour chacun de vous. Si la personne qui vous est chère meurt, vous pouvez pleurer et pleurer encore, cela ne vous la rendra pas. Un corps mortel est mort, pourquoi s'en faire ? Vous devez l'oublier ou vous ne pourrez pas vivre dans ce monde. L'oubli est la meilleure des choses, c'est à cette condition que vous pouvez être heureux. Si vous vous souveniez de vos vies passées, vous seriez malheureux pour toujours ! Dans la vie, toutes sortes de choses se produisent, certaines que vous désirez et d'autres pas. Que faire ! Si vous n'oubliez pas dans la vie, vous devenez fou ! C'est pour cela que l'on dit que l'oubli est nécessaire. Combien de temps faut-il pour oublier ce qui est illusion ? Vous oubliez à chaque instant. Quand vous prononcez un mot, un autre arrive aussitôt et vous devez oublier le premier pour pouvoir prononcer le suivant. Le mot n'a pas d'entité, il naît dans l'espace, qui est zéro. Vous entendez ce que je dis mais pour continuer à entendre, vous devez oublier ce que j'ai dit précédemment. Son origine est le zéro et sa destination le zéro. Tout se passe en une fraction de seconde. Si quelqu'un vous insulte, les mots disparaissent aussitôt prononcés mais l'effet s'imprime dans votre mental. Vos ancêtres sont tous morts, où ont-ils disparu ? Où existent-ils maintenant ? Ils n'ont jamais existé, vous ne pouvez donc pas dire où ils ont disparu. Aujourd'hui, c'est le 18 mai, où a disparu le 17 ? Et d'où apparaîtra le 19 ? Vous comptez les jours et les nuits mais ce n'est que votre concept car si vous demandez au soleil combien d'années il a, il vous répondra : " je ne connais pas les années ! ". Cette base sur laquelle vous comptez toutes ces années, ces va-et-vient, ces apparitions et disparitions, est immuable. Le soleil n'a connaissance de rien.

De la même façon, c'est à partir de l'ignorance que la connaissance est apparue et vous voyez l'illusion entière se dérouler. L'ignorance s'est surimposée à la réalité et de cette ignorance un concept a surgi (la conscience/connaissance) et sur ce concept le monde est créé. Concept veut dire connaissance. Tout le monde fonctionne par la conscience /connaissance, c'est par elle que vous créez et agissez. Prendre naissance est un concept, vous devez ensuite endurer tant de choses durant toute votre vie ! Le concept est la vie, rien d'autre, et quand la vie prend fin, le concept disparaît et tout se termine, rien ne persiste. S'il n'y a pas d'espace, il n'y a pas de mots. À cause de l'espace, les mots et le monde sont apparus. Vous avez créé le monde entier mais, dites-moi, y a-t-il autre chose que les mots dans le monde ? Vous dites que c'est l'Inde, la France ou les États-Unis, mais ce ne sont que des mots, des concepts ! Par les mots, vous en avez tellement fait, et vous avez été si loin qu'il vous est maintenant impossible de vous comprendre vous-même. Comprenez l'origine des mots, où ils commencent, ensuite oubliez-les et la réalité est là. Les mots, c'est à dire la connaissance, ont un grand pouvoir ; à partir d'un seul mot, quelqu'un peut devenir votre ami ou votre ennemi. D'où viennent les mots ? de votre mental. Ainsi le mental est le facteur essentiel, si vous l'orientez vers la véritable chose, c'est à dire la réalité, il devient votre meilleur ami. Si vous le dirigez vers le faux, il vous entraîne en enfer ! Ainsi les êtres réalisés prennent le mental de leur côté, ils en font un ami, et finalement le mental lui-même disparaît et seule la réalité est. Le monde et le mental disparaissent, c'est ça la réalité et c'est ce que vous êtes ! Il n'y a alors plus à s'en faire, car si vous êtes la réalité, comment l'illusion pourrait-elle se maintenir ? Elle n'existe pas de toute façon. Quand vous oubliez la réalité, c'est à dire vous même, le monde apparaît alors dans sa multiplicité.

Les écritures indiennes disent : " vous avez obtenu une incarnation humaine, si vous réfléchissez et comprenez par le biais du discernement, alors vous n'êtes pas perdu, vous oubliez tout et vous atteignez la réalité, mais si au contraire vous vous oubliez dans l'illusion le monde, vous devrez endurer de nombreuses renaissances (84 millions de naissances) ". Tant que vous êtes identifié au mental, aux 5 éléments (le corps) et aux 3 attributs (gunas), vous devez prendre naissances après naissances. Mais dès que vous comprenez : " je ne suis ni le corps ni le mental ", vous sortez du cercle des renaissances. C'est pourquoi les êtres réalisés vous disent d'oublier toutes les choses du monde, mais rappelez-vous que puisque vous avez pris naissance, vous devez vous connaître vous-même dans cette vie. Ceux qui ne le font pas vont en enfer ; enfer veut dire prendre naissance après naissance. Mais en fait, il n'y a ni enfer ni paradis. Être confiné dans le ventre de la mère pendant 9 mois, c'est ça l'enfer, rien d'autre, et pourtant votre plus grand désir est d'avoir un corps. Par la peur, vous êtes devenu si petit mais, croyez-moi, vous ne pourrez obtenir une autre réincarnation humaine si facilement ! Que faites-vous de bien dans cette vie ? Vous dites que ce qui est faux est vrai ! Vous mentez sans arrêt. Vous avez tellement menti que vous ne pouvez pas être pardonné ! Vous fraudez sans cesse car vous dites : " je suis " à ce que vous n'êtes pas. Combien de fois avez-vous dit : " je suis ce corps "? Pour une seule imposture, vous risquez, dit-on, 7 ans de prison, aussi vous faudra-t-il endurer 84 millions de renaissances.

Oubliez " je suis le corps ", comprenez que vous n'êtes pas cette petite chose ! Dès que vous oubliez cela, la réalité est là, nul besoin de la chercher. Vous dites : " il n'y a personne ici ", mais vous vous êtes là ! n'est-ce pas ? Ainsi la réalité est vous-même sans le " vous ". Vous acceptez que vous êtes le " je " et la confusion apparaît. Oubliez ce " je " car il n'existe pas. Qui reste alors ? La réalité. C'est de cette manière que vous pouvez oublier : quand cela n'existe pas, vous n'avez pas à vous rappeler de quoi que ce soit, n'est-ce pas ? Ce qui n'existe pas a pour origine le zéro et pour fin le zéro, alors comment se rappeler de ce qui n'est pas ? Combien de temps vous faut-il pour oublier ce qui n'est pas ? Dites-le-moi ! Vous acceptez en paroles que le monde est illusion, mais au fond de vous-même, vous le refusez. Si vous l'acceptez réellement, vous êtes hors de l'illusion. A cause de l'ignorance, vous pensez que tout cela est vrai ; oubliez-la et vous êtes la réalité. Vous dites : " je veux oublier ", mais en fait vous ne voulez pas le faire ! Vous êtes malade et vous consultez un docteur qui vous donne le remède, mais si vous ne le prenez pas, à qui la faute ? La maladie ne pourra pas disparaître. La maladie de l'illusion est telle qu'elle ne disparaîtra jamais à moins que le maître ne vous donne la compréhension. Alors elle sera supprimée pour la simple raison que l'illusion n'existe pas.

Le problème est que le mental ne veut pas comprendre, d'où toutes ces questions qui se bousculent en vous. Certaines personnes n'ont aucun désir de comprendre mais veulent simplement polémiquer. Si vous dites " oui ", elles diront non, si vous dites : " j'ai de la fièvre ", elles vous diront : " non, vous n'avez pas de fièvre " ! Que peut-on dire alors ? Que peut-on dire à propos de ce qui n'est pas ? Et que peut-on oublier quand ce n'est pas ? Ainsi ce qui n'est pas, n'est pas et ne sera jamais, c'est une évidence ! En fait, c'est facile d'oublier : vous avez oublié aujourd'hui ce qui s'est passé hier et vous oublierez demain ce qui s'est passé aujourd'hui. Par un simple changement mental, tout disparaît, si ce changement se produit vous devenez la réalité, sinon vous restez une petite créature dans le monde. Quelle valeur a ce petit corps dans ce monde immense ? Il peut disparaître en une fraction de seconde si la déconnexion se produit, mais vous êtes si fier de cette chose qui peut disparaître à tout moment ! Vous vous croyez important, vous croyez faire de grandes choses avec ce corps. L'ego n'existe que sur du vent, c'est à dire la respiration. Quand elle s'arrête, où est l'ego ? Tant que vous respirez, vous dites que l'illusion est vraie, mais quand elle s'arrête tout devient zéro. Comprenez qu'elle n'est pas vraie alors même que vous respirez, que vous êtes en vie. Mais l'ego ne vous autorise pas à l'accepter. Oublier le monde veut dire comprendre qu'il n'est pas. Si vous le comprenez ainsi, vous êtes sûr d'atteindre la réalité car vous êtes Elle.

D'où vient le rêve et où disparaît-il ? Un concept a surgi et vous voyez le rêve se dérouler. Quand vous dites : " je suis ", c'est le concept qui surgi et ensuite vous voyez le monde entier. Tout le monde dit : " je suis ", personne ne dit : " je ne suis pas ". La réalité est la seule base qui soit, malgré tout vous dites : " je suis ". Vous considérez le corps, le mental et toutes les choses comme étant vrais, vous ne comprenez pas que tout cela n'existe pas. Les êtres réalisés savent que le " je " n'existe pas. Si vous n'existez pas, comment le monde pourrait-il exister ? C'est vous qui donnez la valeur à toutes les choses, vous dites ces arbres sont là, mais les arbres disent-ils " je suis là " ? Vous nommez chaque chose de ce monde, mais les choses ne disent jamais " Je suis cela ", c'est vous qui le dites. Votre mental est sous l'emprise de l'ignorance et dit : tout est vrai. Que faire! Ce qui n'est pas, vous dites que cela est. Exactement comme un ivrogne qui sous l'effet de l'alcool vocifère : " je suis un roi, je suis un roi " ! Qui peut l'arrêter ? Vous pouvez être le premier ministre de votre pays mais cette situation peut changer à tout moment (en Inde le premier ministre change tout les jours !), mais vous persistez à dire : " je suis cela "! Ce n'est qu'illusion car c'est seulement votre concept, votre pensée et la pensée fonctionne sur le souffle, sur la respiration. Quand le souffle s'arrête, tout disparaît, pauvre ou riche, tout s'évanouit. Donc comprenez, alors que vous êtes vivant, que vous respirez toujours, d'où vient cette respiration, ce souffle. Elle vient de la réalité car tout se surimpose à elle. Sur elle tout apparaît et disparaît, mais elle seule est et demeure. En comprenant cela, vous devenez vous-même la réalité et alors tout ce que " je " vois et perçois n'est rien d'autre que moi-même. Vous devez vous connaître vous-même. Rien d'autre. Le Christ a dit : " Connaissez vous vous-même et vous connaissez le monde ". Quand le mental atteint cette compréhension, il est toujours heureux, il sait qu'il n'y a plus à s'en faire. Sous l'influence de l'ignorance, vous êtes si malheureux ! Constamment sous l'emprise du désir, vous voulez tout. Le mental mendie sans cesse, il veut toujours quelque chose, il n'est jamais satisfait. Quand vous vous comprenez vous-même, vous êtes alors pleinement satisfait.

Q : Maharaj, vous avez dit que certaines personnes ont accédé à la connaissance mais sont retombées dans l'ignorance avec un ego encore plus fort qu'avant. Pourriez-vous développer cela ?

RM : Quand vous oubliez votre compréhension vous revenez dans l'illusion. Vous vous oubliez. Le mental doit avoir la ferme conviction que " Je " n'existe pas. Est-ce que un mort dit : " je n'existe pas " ? Il ne peut pas le dire puisqu'il n'existe pas. Mais si vous vous oubliez (votre véritable nature) et revenez dans l'illusion, qui peut vous arrêter ? Tout dépend de la force de votre conviction. La seule chose à comprendre est que " Je " n'existe pas, que seule la réalité est. " Je " est une illusion et si vous le comprenez vraiment, comment pourrait-elle vous toucher à nouveau ? Quand vous vous oubliez (c'est à dire la réalité), l'illusion survient. Celui qui ne boit pas n'est pas sous l'influence de l'alcool, n'est ce pas ? C'est celui qui boit qui subit les effets de l'alcool. Si vous comprenez le monde, vous ne pouvez pas revenir dans l'illusion. Le mental doit être complètement convaincu ; c'est la conviction que ce qui n'est pas, n'est pas et ne sera jamais. Un mort ne peut revenir sous l'influence de l'ignorance, ce qui est mort ne peut revivre. Votre désir d'avoir un corps est ego, mais si l'ego meurt ce désir ne peut revenir ! Ce qui a disparu a disparu !

Si la compréhension est fermement établie, il ne peut y avoir de retour en arrière. Si en face de vous, il y a un flacon sur lequel est écrit Poison, y toucherez-vous ? Au contraire, vous l'éloignerez de votre vue. Il est dit : " hors des yeux, hors du mental ". Que dire de celui qui revient dans l'illusion du monde sinon que c'est un fou qui a eu la compréhension mais l'a perdue. La compréhension doit être complète et bien digérée, celui qui revient n'a donc pas compris. Il va simplement jusqu'à la source de la connaissance, qu'il considère comme vraie. La conscience/connaissance est l'ego. Le véritable maître vous dit d'oublier l'ignorance et la connaissance également. Le souvenir peut se transformer en oubli, cela veut dire que la connaissance n'est pas vraie. Vous vous rappelez de quelque chose en ce moment mais l'instant suivant, vous l'oubliez n'est-ce pas ? Ce qui change n'est pas vrai, la connaissance n'est donc pas vraie. Vous devez allez au-delà de l'ignorance et de la connaissance. La conscience/connaissance elle-même vient de l'ignorance, c'est à dire de l'oubli de la réalité. La connaissance est le plus grand des egos. Socrate a dit : " Je sais que je ne sais rien ". Ce que vous savez n'est rien, n'est pas vrai, la connaissance est toujours fausse. À cause de l'ignorance, la connaissance est apparue, ainsi si vous oubliez la connaissance, l'ignorance disparaîtra automatiquement. Dans le sommeil, vous êtes près de la réalité mais vous ne le savez pas, c'est le problème. Vous allez au point zéro mais vous ne devez pas en rester là, comprenez que je suis au-delà du zéro, du vide.

Dans la réalité, il n'y a ni ignorance ni connaissance. Quand la connaissance survient, sachez qu'elle vient de l'ignorance, c'est à dire de l'oubli de vous-même. Au réveil vous dites Om (quelque soit votre langue) et alors le monde commence, autrement il n'apparaît pas. Les Écritures hindoues disent que Om est le commencement. Avec Om, le " Je " arrive et tout le reste suit. Quand le " Je " disparaît, tout est achevé, il n'y a plus à s'en faire. Tuer votre ego signifie comprendre qu'il n'est pas. Mais vous voulez être quelque chose, votre désir le plus fort, votre concept puissant est l'ego, c'est " Je suis ". Quand le " Je " dors, où êtes-vous ? En une fraction de seconde le " Je " disparaît et c'est le vide, zéro. Allez au delà du vide par la compréhension. Tant que l'ego se maintient, vous êtes dans l'illusion. Quand il disparaît, vous êtes Elle, la réalité. Si la compréhension est claire et ferme, il n'est plus possible de revenir dans l'illusion, seuls ceux qui se sont arrêtés à la connaissance reviennent dans le monde et recherchent ensuite le pouvoir, la célébrité ou l'argent. On dit que les plus grands hommes sont partis inconnus, Rama et Krishna étaient des Héros secondaires ! On les appellent Avatars, (incarnations divines) mais quelque soit l'incarnation c'est toujours une descente, c'est à dire une marche plus bas car ils sont devenus quelque chose, n'est ce pas ? Incarnation veut dire que quelque chose s'est manifesté. L'être réalisé vit silencieusement et disparaît en silence, il ne dit jamais : " Je suis réalisé ". Qui est-il pour réaliser ? Il ne se maintient pas en tant que " Je ". Ensuite sa pensée se diffuse dans le monde. Il ne dit jamais : " j'existe " ; rien ne persiste pour lui.

Q: Ce qui nous empêche d'oublier le mental, c'est en fait l'attachement au plaisir des sens, comment parvenir à ce détachement ?

RM : L'attachement se produit à cause de la conscience/connaissance. Si vous ne la craignez pas, alors vous pouvez la dépasser et l'attachement ne peut persister. Les attachements aux sens sont dus au corps et vous n'êtes pas cela. Un cadavre n'a plus d'attachements. La conscience/connaissance pénètre votre corps quand vous prenez naissance et tous les attachements sont créés par les sens. Il y a cinq sens de la connaissance et cinq sens de l'action. Les yeux voient mais c'est vous qui le savez. Quand vous entendez un son, c'est la connaissance, quand vous goûtez, c'est la connaissance. En fait tout est dû à la connaissance. Quand vous dites : " j'ai entendu ", c'est avec la conscience/connaissance que vous dites cela. Ainsi le corps est connecté à la conscience/connaissance et la connexion crée tout cela : voir, entendre, parler, manger, bouger... Tout se produit à partir de la conscience/connaissance. Si elle disparaît, les dix sens ne fonctionnent plus dans le corps. À partir d'elle, toutes les choses illusoires sont apparues, alors pourquoi la considérer comme vraie ? Tout comme dans un rêve, vous voyez et faites toutes sortes de choses, mais au réveil dites-vous : " j'ai fait tout cela " ? Non, car vous savez que c'est faux. Ici c'est la même chose, c'est un long rêve où une multitude de choses se passe mais vous dites quand même " j'ai fait cela " ! Alors qu'en fait vous n'existez pas, c'est cela que vous ne comprenez pas !


Crow

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 3832
Re: Entretiens avec Ranjit Maharaj
« Reply #1 on: Marzo 19, 2009, 09:44:16 am »
C'est grâce à la conscience/connaissance que vous pouvez dire : " j'ai fait cela ". Si vous tuez quelqu'un, vous l'oublier quand vous dormez, n'est-ce pas ? Quand vous ou-bliez, rien ne persiste. Vous vous réveillez (du sommeil) et la connexion avec la con-naissance se fait et tout le reste suit : la peur, les événements... Vous n'êtes pas le corps alors pourquoi vous inquiétez ? Tous les attachements sont produits par la conscien-ce/connaissance à travers les sens. Vous voyez et oubliez, vous entendez et oubliez. Si un menteur affirme : " je n'ai jamais dit cela ", pouvez-vous retrouver ses mots quelque part ? Tant que la conscience/connaissance est là, l'attachement est là aussi. Comprenez simplement que ce n'est pas vrai, que tout en fait est dû à l'ignorance. D'où la conscien-ce/connaissance vient-elle ? De l'ignorance. Vous avez pris naissance dans l'ignorance et de là, la connaissance a surgi. Tout apparaît ensuite, le mental, les sens et l'ego se mettent en action. Mais tout ceci est l'affaire du corps, pas la vôtre, vous n'êtes pas cela. Comprenez que la réalité n'a rien à voir avec toutes ces choses. Comme dans l'exemple du film qui apparaît sur l'écran. L'écran, lui, ne s'inquiète de rien. Dans le film vous pleurez, vous chantez, vous priez ou vous tuez quelqu'un, mais que reste-t-il quand le film est fini ? Le héros est-il réel ? S'il voulait savoir qui il est, il disparaîtrait et seul l'écran resterait.

À cause de l'ignorance, ce rêve est apparu et vous dites : " Je suis cela ", l'attache-ment en découle. Tant que le corps est en vie, les dix sens doivent fonctionner, mais comprenez que ce corps n'est pas moi, ni mien. Si votre voisin meurt, vous ne mourrez pas avec lui, n'est-ce pas ? Considérez donc votre corps comme étant votre voisin et non pas vous-même. Vous acceptez l'idée : " Je suis le corps ", alors tout vous arrive et vous affecte. Si vous comprenez que : " Je ne suis pas le corps ", les attachements et les sens eux-mêmes n'ont plus de valeur pour vous. Les sens ne sont rien, ils ne fonctionnent que par la conscience/connaissance, c'est leur base, sans elle ils ne peuvent fonctionner. Si vous avez une attaque cérébrale, la connaissance est déconnectée. Vous n'avez plus connaissance de quoique ce soit. Vous voyez mais vous ne le savez pas, vous avez des yeux mais ne pouvez reconnaître. Le cerveau, qui est la connaissance est déconnecté, la faculté de penser est interrompue. L'ampoule peut-elle éclairer s'il n'y a pas d'électricité ? Ainsi quand votre voisin meurt, vous ne mourez pas avec lui. De la même façon sa-chez que vous n'êtes pas le corps. " Je suis le corps ", est l'effet de l'ignorance. Mais même lorsque vous dites : " c'est mon corps ", cela signifie bien que vous êtes autre chose que lui, n'est-ce pas ? Si vous dites : " c'est ma maison ", vous n'êtes pas la mai-son. C'est à cause de l'ignorance que ce mien est devenu moi. Les sens fonctionnent mais vous dites : " je vois " .

Comprenez que ce corps n'est pas moi, puis laissez les sens fonctionner ou disparaî-tre, pourquoi s'inquiéter ? Si votre ami tue quelqu'un, vous direz peut-être : " il a com-mis une erreur ", mais vous ne direz pas : " j'ai tué " ! Si vous dites : " je suis la main qui a tué ", vous êtes jeté en prison car vous vous identifiez au corps ! À cause de la cons-cience/connaissance, les sens vous sont venus mais si vous dites : " je suis les sens " ou " ils sont à moi ", alors vous êtes lié à l'action qui se produit. Parce que la connaissance est là, tout arrive et se met en action. Quand vous dormez, la connaissance s'éteint, les sens ne fonctionnent plus, de même quand le corps meurt, quand le pouvoir interne est déconnecté, que reste-t-il ? Rien. Ainsi tant que la connaissance ou le pouvoir est con-necté, vous ressentez que tout est réel mais vous devez comprendre alors même que le pouvoir/connaissance est connecté, que rien n'est réel. C'est ainsi que vous en êtes libé-ré. Les yeux voient et vous dites " je vois ", le nez sent et vous dites " je sens ", c'est cela l'ego. Vous acceptez que le " Je " est l'agissant, alors que vous ne pouvez rien faire. Le corps et la connaissance rentrent en contact, ils se connectent et tout se manifeste. La connaissance (pouvoir) peut-elle faire quelque chose par elle-même ? sans ampoule, l'électricité ne peut donner de la lumière, et sans électricité, l'ampoule ne peut éclairer. Aussi l'un et l'autre sont-ils nécessaires pour produire la lumière. Le pouvoir connais-sance est connecté au corps, et le corps fonctionne mais si vous le considérez comme étant Mien, c'est l'ego. Sans la mort de l'ego, vous ne pouvez réaliser.

Le " Je " n'a aucune entité, c'est simplement un concept qui a surgi et maintenant vous devez l'oublier. Par la pensée, vous devez comprendre que vous n'êtes pas cela : " Je ne suis pas le corps ". Dans un rêve, vous tuez quelqu'un ou vous priez Dieu, les deux actes sont de même valeur car ils n'existent pas. Tuer ou adorer ne sont pas vrais. Êtes-vous d'accord ? Ce qui n'est pas réel, vous le considérez comme vrai à cause de l'ego mais rien ne se passe et c'est pour cela qu'on l'appelle illusion. Les yeux voient, mais ce qu'ils voient est faux, ce n'est pas réel. Vous entendez, mais qu'entendez-vous ? Des mots qui disparaissent en une fraction de seconde. La langue goûte, mais le goût s'éva-nouit instantanément et rien ne persiste. Dans votre estomac, rien ne dit : " je suis un gâteau " ! Tout se mélange et devient Un. La connaissance est ainsi faite, elle rentre en contact et disparaît le moment suivant. Elle laisse une impression et disparaît instanta-nément, elle devient ignorance.

Ainsi tout se produit à cause de la connaissance, mais vous devez comprendre que la conscience/connaissance est la plus grande des ignorances. L'attachement se crée, et par ignorance vous le considérez comme réel. Vous ne faites rien mais vous dites : " je fais toutes ces choses ". Ce que vous dites est faux, alors qui en est responsable ? Vous ne faites rien mais vous dites " Je fais " ! Oubliez ce " Je " et vous êtes libre de toute misè-re, souffrance et ignorance. La joie, la souffrance sont produites par l'ego mais les évé-nements se passent et disparaissent, ils ne se maintiennent pas. Toutes sortes de films sont projetés sur l'écran mais l'écran ne s'en inquiète pas, il sait que tout est faux. Dès que vous comprenez cela, votre question disparaît, elle n'est plus. Les attachements con-cernent le corps, pas vous. Ce qui n'est pas ne peut être réel. Vous aimez une femme et vous l'épousez, après un certain temps vous ne l'aimez plus et vous vous en séparez. Les attractions et les répulsions ne sont pas réelles, c'est le fonctionnement du mental, c'est la conscience/connaissance qui est ego. L'ego produit toutes sortes de choses, oubliez-le et vous êtes Elle, la réalité. Dans un rêve vous avez femme et enfant mais quand le rêve est fini, pleurez-vous à leur disparition ? Vous dites simplement que c'était un rêve. La compréhension est requise, et quand elle survient, elle tue la compréhension elle-même, la connaissance tue la connaissance, la pensée tue la pensée. En fait, qu'est-ce que la compréhension ? C'est la connaissance que la connaissance est toujours fausse, c'est la connaissance de ce qui n'est pas réel ! Vous enlevez une épine à l'aide d'une autre épine mais les deux sont des épines. De la même manière, l'ignorance est supprimée à l'aide de la connaissance mais toutes deux sont fausses. Rejetez-les et vous êtes hors de l'igno-rance et de la connaissance, vous êtes Elle, la réalité.

Q : Maharaj dit qu'après sa mort l'être réalisé ne revient plus dans le corps, dans le monde. Cela signifie-t-il que tout est dissout ?

RM : Tout est dissout pour lui car il a compris qu'il n'est jamais né et donc ne mou-rra jamais. Il n'est jamais né, seul le corps a pris naissance à cause du désir de naître. Quand il comprend que ce désir lui-même est faux, comment peut-il mourir ? Il dit : " Je ne meurs jamais, seule la réalité est, éternelle ". Tous les êtres meurent dans ce monde, mais celui qui a compris : " Je suis Elle ", ne meurt jamais. Comment l'immortel pou-rrait-il mourir ? Seul le mortel meurt et ce mortel vous a recouvert, c'est lui qui disparaît mais vous ne disparaissez pas. Vous êtes inaltéré, toujours le même. Tous les problèmes et les maladies arrivent au corps mais pas à vous. C'est quand vous dites : " Je suis le corps " que la maladie vous affecte, quand vous vous identifiez au corps, rien ne vous épargne : la naissance, la mort, la maladie... Si vous dites : " Je ne suis pas le corps ", vous n'êtes pas touché.

C'est l'ego qui vous fait dire " je suis né ", mais en fait vous ne naissez jamais, vous ne mourez jamais. Sur l'écran les films apparaissent et disparaissent mais l'écran n'est pas affecté ; il est toujours semblable à lui-même, il montre des malades, des gens qui meurent, mais est-ce qu'il meurt avec eux ? Ainsi la réalité reste inchangée et tout ce que vous voyez et percevez sur elle n'est rien, rien que son ombre ou son reflet. Est-ce que l'or perd sa valeur si on le fond ou que l'on s'en sert pour fabriquer des bijoux ? L'or reste toujours de l'or. Que vous en fassiez une image de Dieu ou celle d'un chien, l'or ne change pas. Même si vous en faites un âne, l'or ne devient pas âne ! Ce que vous voyez et percevez n'est rien, vous donnez des noms et des formes mais ceux-ci sont faux ; seu-le la réalité est. Tout n'est que l'ombre de la réalité. Qu'il soit au bracelet d'une prostituée ou dans la couronne d'un dieu, l'or a autant de valeur. De la même façon tout apparaît sur la réalité et disparaît, mais la réalité reste toujours réalité : c'est pour cela qu'on l'ap-pelle ainsi. Elle ne change jamais, ne naît jamais et ne meurt jamais, et vous êtes cela. Comprenez que le corps meurt mais pas vous. Vous pleurez quand il est sur le point de disparaître car vous pensez " Je suis le corps ". Les êtres réalisés disent : " le corps m'a recouvert tel un abcès ", alors quand il s'en va, ils pensent : " formidable, l'abcès dispa-raît ! ".

Le mental est une chose incroyable qui ne sait jamais ce qu'il veut. Chaque jour il désire quelque chose de plus, toujours de plus en plus. On se débarrasse facilement d'un abcès mais le désir d'avoir un corps est si fort, si puissant que vous ne pouvez pas le comprendre. Le corps fait toujours mal à un endroit ou à un autre et les désirs sont aussi douloureux pour le mental. Le mental est toujours en conflit et tout est difficile pour lui. Si vous n'aviez pas pris naissance, il n'y aurait aucun problème : le rêve apparaît pour celui qui s'endort, celui qui ne dort pas ne peut pas rêver. Dormir signifie vous oublier vous-même et dès lors, les ennuis commencent ! Celui qui ne s'oublie pas est toujours la réalité. Elle n'a ni forme ni nom, et si vous ne les créez pas, vous êtes libre. Ainsi je dis à tous : " Vous êtes la réalité, mais vous avez pris forme et nom, c'est cela l'erreur. " Vous devez les oublier maintenant. Sur l'écran, vous voyez le héros et le méchant, vous jugez l'un bon l'autre mauvais, mais il n'y a que l'écran. Le reste n'est rien, alors quels commentaires peut-on faire à propos de qui que ce soit ? L'écran montre le vilain et le héros et il reste toujours vierge, non altéré. Rien ne le touche. Si les personnages com-prenaient qui ils sont, ils disparaîtraient et seul l'écran resterait. Oubliez l'ego, rien de plus, c'est à cause de lui que tous ces problèmes vous assaillent. L'ego signifie connais-sance et la connaissance, comme l'ignorance, est la cause de l'oubli de vous-même. La connaissance crée le faux, c'est la cause de toute souffrance. Pourquoi le Christ a-t-il dit : " Connaissez-vous vous-même " ? Le " Vous " disparaît, c'est cela se connaître soi-même. Connaissez-vous vous-même et vous connaissez le monde. Si vous vous con-naissez, ni vous ni le monde ne se maintiennent, les deux disparaissent et vous êtes li-bre, seule la réalité demeure.

Q : Quand vous employez le mot conscience voulez-vous dire Chit en sanscrit ?

RM : Non, je veux dire connaissance.

Q : Parfois je suis troublé car tantôt vous dites conscience et tantôt connaissance.

RM : Les deux sont Un, ils sont comme des frères jumeaux. Antakharan est la con-naissance, l'organe interne " Je suis ".

Q : La connaissance est-elle un produit du mental ?

RM : Non, les deux sont Un. Le mental est la connaissance. La connaissance est conscience.

Q : Je suis désorienté car dans la plupart des livres il est dit que la réalité est la cons-cience.

RM : Le point de départ du " Je " est la connaissance. Quand vous ressentez " Je suis ", c'est la connaissance.

Q : Je comprend le " Je suis " comme étant le contenu de la conscience.

RM : Dites ce que vous voulez, pas de problème ! Mais tout deux ne sont qu'une seule et même chose. La connaissance objective apparaît par le biais du mental, pas de mental pas de connaissance. Comment sont-ils créés ? Dès que vous ressentez le " Je ", la connaissance surgit.

Q : Quand je médite par exemple, je n'ai aucune pensée et donc il n'y a pas de con-naissance, mais la conscience est là.

RM : Mais cette conscience est connaissance ! Bien sûr, il n'y a pas de connaissance d'un objet. La connaissance de l'objet (connaissance objective) est le mental, et c'est grâce au mental que vous avez la connaissance du monde.

Q : Alors quand vous savez que vous êtes, vous êtes dans la conscience ?

RM : Oui, dans la conscience/connaissance.

Q : Dans l'état sans état, vous ne savez pas que vous êtes ?

RM : Non, car là " vous " n'existez pas, seule la réalité est. Vous voyez tous les films sur l'écran mais l'écran n'a pas de film. Toutes les couleurs apparaissent sur l'écran mais l'écran n'a pas de couleurs. De même pour la réalité, une multitude de choses se passent sur elle pour disparaître ensuite, mais la réalité n'a rien à voir avec tout cela.

Q : J'ai compris mais je voudrais une dernière clarification. Parfois dans la médita-tion je disparais et lorsque je regarde ma montre je constate que je suis là depuis long-temps bien que j'ai l'impression qu'une seule minute se soit écoulée. Est-ce cela l'état sans état, quand vous disparaissez simplement ?

RM : Oubliez tout et vous êtes là, ne vous rappelez même pas de vous-même ! Parce que si vous le faites, vous vous rappelez automatiquement de quelque chose d'autre. Oubliez ! Oubliez même la réalité, et elle est là. Si vous essayez de vous souvenir, il s'agit toujours d'un objet, de quelque chose d'autre. Vous ne pouvez pas la connaître ! Là, la connaissance devient ignorance. Ainsi oubliez cela (le monde et la connaissance) et vous y êtes. On l'appelle l'état sans état. Là, il n'y a ni état ni concept ni pensée, c'est la réalité. Tout apparaît et tout existe à cause de la connaissance, mais d'où vient la con-naissance ? De l'ignorance! La connaissance et l'ignorance sont les deux faces d'une même pièce.

Q : Par ignorance, vous voulez dire vacuité, vide ?

RM : Oui, zéro.

Q : Est-ce que l'oubli est la nature du réel ?

RM : Non, la réalité ne peut pas oublier ni se rappeler de quoi que ce soit. Il n'y a ni ignorance ni connaissance dans la réalité. Il n'y a ni tendances ni attributs, car elle est au-delà. Quand vous dormez vous oubliez tout, une pensée émerge et le rêve se déroule. De la même façon, la réalité est oubliée mais ce n'est pas sa nature. Oublier ou se sou-venir ne concerne pas la réalité. En fait elle seule est, donc qui peut s'en rappeler ou l'oublier ? C'est simplement à cause de l'ignorance que quelque chose s'est passé, et vous prenez cela pour vrai, ainsi oubliez cela et Elle est là ! " Là ", n'est aussi qu'un mot et dans la réalité, il n'y a pas de mots du tout. Si vous comprenez correctement, c'est à dire que rien n'est vrai, alors automatiquement " Elle " est vraie. On doit utiliser des mots sinon vous ne pouvez pas comprendre, mais les mots ne peuvent l'atteindre. Par exemple, vous vous endormez et un rêve survient, mais pour savoir que c'est un rêve, vous devez aller dans le rêve et ensuite vous pouvez dire que c'est un rêve. Dans ce monde tous sont dans un rêve, rêve ici veut dire ignorance. De l'ignorance un concept surgit, et l'illusion, le rêve, se déploie. Tous les êtres sont dans l'ignorance, cela signifie qu'ils dorment, ce sont des corps qui s'agitent de par le monde, c'est à dire des cadavres ambulants ! Vous vous considérez comme des corps vivants mais le corps n'est qu'un cadavre, il ne fonctionne que parce qu'il est connecté au pouvoir interne. Vous vous efforcez d'accumuler toutes sortes de connaissances du monde, vous voulez le plus de diplômes possibles, mais qu'est-ce que tout cela ? Rien d'autre qu'ignorance. Cette con-naissance concerne l'illusion, qui par définition n'existe pas.

Vous êtes et vous n'êtes pas, la réalité est ainsi. Alors où la trouver ? Oubliez sim-plement cela (le monde, le " Je "), et Elle est là. Oubliez votre mental, oubliez votre connaissance et votre ignorance, oubliez tout ce que vous voyez et percevez de ce mon-de. Oublier veut dire : cela n'est pas vrai. Nul besoin de quitter quoi que ce soit, com-prenez simplement que ce n'est pas réel, parce que le " Je " voit toujours ce qui n'est pas, c'est dans sa nature de vous tromper, de dire et de voir le faux. Tous les noms sont faux, soyez-en certain ! Ils sont illusion mais vous donnez quand même des noms à tout et à tous. Pourquoi ne pouvez vous pas trouver la réalité ? Parce que l'origine du " Je " est le zéro, le vide. Le " Je " n'existe pas. Votre nom est Pierre ou Paul, mais pouvez-vous le trouver quelque part ? Non, parce qu'il vient du rien, de zéro. Vous dites " Oui " à ce qui n'est pas, alors comment cela peut-il être réel ? Tous sont dans l'ignorance car tout a pour origine l'ignorance, c'est à dire l'oubli de la réalité. De là toute chose a surgi, et par ignorance vous dites que tout est vrai, tout est réel.

Dans le sommeil profond, qui n'est qu'un changement d'état, tout devient zéro. Sa-vez-vous où vous êtes quand vous dormez, quand vous oubliez ? Dans cette ignorance une pensée émerge et vous devenez quelqu'un d'autre dans le rêve. La réalité n'a pas de tendances, ni d'oubli ni de souvenir. Ce que le " Je " dit est toujours faux. Socrate a dit : " Ce que vous voyez et percevez par le mental n'est pas vrai ". Vous voyez une multitu-de de choses mais vous n'êtes jamais satisfait. Vous obtenez satisfaction quand vous comprenez que ce que " Je " vois n'est rien. C'est mon concept, mon pouvoir interne qui s'extériorise pour revenir ensuite à l'intérieur, et en lui je vois tout. Que se passe-t-il quand vous prenez une photo ? Le rayon va vers l'extérieur et revient à l'intérieur, le résultat est la photo. Ainsi tout est ce pouvoir interne qui sort par l'œil et va jusqu'au soleil pour revenir à l'intérieur. Par ce pouvoir vous voyez toute chose. C'est par igno-rance que vous croyez que tout est à l'extérieur alors que tout est en vous ! " Vous " ici signifie Pouvoir, tout est dans ce pouvoir. C'est pour cela que les sages vous disent d'a-ller à l'intérieur. Mais en fait où aller ? Vous êtes cela, alors où aller ? Ils vous disent que tout est en vous et que c'est un malentendu qui vous fait croire que c'est à l'exté-rieur. Ce que je vois et perçois n'est rien d'autre que mon ombre, dites au moins cela, c'est mieux que rien ! Il est dit que les yeux obtiennent satisfaction quand ils voient que tout est moi-même. Il n'y a rien à part moi-même. Vous regardez votre propre photo, combien de fois la contemplerez-vous ? Deux ou trois fois tout au plus car cette image est votre reflet, elle n'est pas réelle. Si vous prenez le reflet pour le réel, vous vous ou-bliez.

Maintenant je dis que tout ce que vous voyez et percevez n'est rien d'autre que votre concept ! Vous dites que c'est un arbre, alors c'est un arbre, mais lui ne dit jamais qu'il est un arbre ! Les ignorants à qui l'on a donné un nom disent fièrement : " Je suis cela, untel, une telle ". Vous vous croyez supérieur au reste de la création, mais vous êtes bien plus ignorant, car vous acceptez d'être ce que vous n'êtes pas, alors, que faire ! À ce qui n'est pas vous, vous dites " Oui ". Que faire !

Vous vous moquez de celui qui, sous l'emprise de l'alcool, délire et dit n'importe quoi, vous ne le croyez pas. De même, les êtres réalisés rient de vous car tout ce que vous pouvez dire ou faire n'est qu'enfantillage. Quand les enfants jouent, ils montrent des pierres en disant : " celle-ci, c'est ma maison, celle-là ma voiture ", etc. Les croyez-vous ? Les petites filles s'amusent à la poupée et vous invitent au mariage : " viens à la cérémonie, ma poupée se marie ". Et vous répondez :" oui, oui je viendrai ". Mais faites-vous des préparatifs quelconques pour y assister ? Non, car vous savez que vous n'avez rien à faire ni nulle part où aller, mais si le fils de votre ami se marie vous le prenez au sérieux et tôt le matin vous vous agitez pour être prêt. Simplement parce que vous cro-yez que c'est réel. Quand vous comprenez que ce n'est pas réel, vous ne faites plus au-cun arrangement pour quoi que ce soit ! Que cela se fasse ou pas, peu vous importe ! Les sages comprennent que quoiqu'il arrive, c'est mon ordre, qu'il soit bon ou mauvais ! Parce que ce pouvoir qui a créé le monde entier est le même pouvoir qui est en moi. Vous pouvez donc dire : " c'est mon ordre que tout se passe ainsi ". Même si la personne que vous aimez meurt, au lieu de dire : " c'est la volonté de Dieu ", dites : " c'est mon choix que cela se passe ainsi " ! À ce moment-là, vous devenez la conscience universe-lle.

Maintenant je vais un peu plus loin en disant que ce pouvoir qui a créé le monde n'est pas vrai non plus. Quand vous avez un rêve, vous en êtes le créateur, n'est ce pas ? Mais au réveil, vous dites vous-même : " cela n'est pas réel ". Les sages disent que le créateur a créé le monde, mais que tout disparaît dans le vide, le zéro. Ainsi ce n'est pas réel. Le monde a été créé dans l'obscurité. Le créateur a créé le monde dans l'ignorance, c'est à dire l'oubli de la réalité ; donc le monde n'est pas réel et le créateur du faux est faux également. Exactement comme quand vous dormez, vous oubliez tout dans le sommeil profond et ensuite le rêve apparaît. Le rêve est-il réel ? Son origine est l'igno-rance et la réalité n'a rien à voir avec tout ce qui se produire dans l'ignorance. De nom-breux films sont apparus sur l'écran mais l'écran s'en soucie-t-il ? Vous chantez, vous pleurez, vous vous agitez dans le film, mais quand il est terminé, il ne reste plus rien. Vous croyez réel ce que vous voyez et percevez dans l'ignorance, et vous dites que cela est l'expression de la réalité. C'est faux !

Si l'oubli est là, c'est à dire l'ignorance, la connaissance doit être là aussi, ce sont les deux faces d'une même pièce. La réalité n'a aucune tendance ou qualité, ni d'oubli ni de rappel. La réalité est, et sur elle toutes sortes de choses se passent mais elle n'est pas touchée. Dans le souvenir, c'est à dire la connaissance, il y a automatiquement la ten-dance contraire qui est l'oubli, c'est à dire l'ignorance. Si vous vous souvenez, cela veut dire que vous aviez oublié. Un sage a dit : " c'est très facile d'oublier ". Rama, Laksh-man son frère et Hanuman ont oublié, les dieux aussi ont oublié, ils ont tous fait des erreurs. Brahma est le créateur du monde, Vishnou le maintient et le protège et Shiva est le destructeur qui dit que le monde n'est pas réel. Oublier est une chose commune à tous. L'oubli, ou l'ignorance, est lié à la connaissance mais la réalité n'a rien à voir avec elle. Connaissance et ignorance sont des concepts qui ont pour origine le point zéro. Ce qui commence dans le point zéro a les attributs ou tendances de connaissance et d'igno-rance, d'oubli et de rappel. Vous devez aller au-delà du point zéro, c'est à dire aller au delà de ce qui n'existe pas (zéro). C'est ce qu'on appelle la voie secrète. Ceux qui sont forts et courageux peuvent aller au-delà du vide (zéro). Il suffit d'être convaincu que tout n'est rien. Bien sûr cela demande du courage pour dire que tout est faux, que tout est mon concept y compris les dieux et les démons. Mes pensées positives sont appelées Dieu et mes pensées négatives Démon, c'est tout.

Ainsi quand vous oubliez la réalité, n'importe quoi peut se produire, mais la réalité n'a pas de tendances d'oubli ou de rappel, d'ignorance ou de connaissance. Si la réalité avait la faculté d'oublier, il n'y aurait plus rien du tout. S'il n'y a pas de fondation, com-ment l'immeuble peut-il tenir debout ? Dans l'oubli de la base (la réalité) un seul concept a créé le monde entier !


Traduit de l'anglais par Laurence Le Doaré
Copyright © Laurence Le Doaré. Toutes droits réservés.

Crow

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 3832
Re: Entretiens avec Ranjit Maharaj
« Reply #2 on: Marzo 19, 2009, 09:44:40 am »
Meeting Ranjit Maharaj
Compiled by Anne and Darrell Newberg



 

Ranjit Maharaj
Bombay, 1999


Ranjit Maharaj was born in Bombay on January 4th, 1913. At the age of 12, he met his master Siddharameshwar Maharaj, a great unknown master of the age. Ranjit Maha-raj did not begin to teach until 1983 at the age of 70 when increasing numbers of see-kers kept showing up at his door. His teaching is in the continuity of his master's, which emphasises simplicity and directeness in language -"Everything comes from zero and everything goes to zero, so why worry?"

The specificity of Maharaj's teaching is its radical stand and directness - All is illu-sion, the "I" is illusion, so whatever the "I" does is also illusion. Therefore, he does not give any method to improve that which is not, which is illusion. Through knowledge and the rejection of all false identifications that one has taken upon oneself, the veils of ignorance are removed and we realise our true nature."To find out your true nature is the easiest thing since you are That." 

Knowledge is a mere remedy to cure the disease of ignorance, and once ignorance has vanished, knowledge has no more entity. "In Reality, there is neither knowledge nor ignorance. When I do not exist, when I am not, He only is and that is Reality, that is Ourselves without ourselves."

Ranjit Maharaj passed away on November 15th, 2000 at 6:16 PM at his residence in Bombay. Maharaj's words during his last few days were, "It is of no use now, this has to go".

Ranjit Maharaj and Nisargadatta Maharaj are both disciples of the great Master Siddharameshwar Maharaj. They are all recipients of teachings of the small Hindu group known as the 'Navnath Sampradaya'. According to these non-dualistic teachings, the direct intuitive knowledge of Reality has to be experienced within the heart. This direct perception is realised through dissolution of the sense of 'I-ness' - that which se-parates us from Reality.
 
Ranjit Maharaj, who is in his eighties, is a vital force and presence. Everday he meets with seekers and speaks of the awakening to the living presence of Truth within our heart. During his stay in Brittany, on the French Atlantic coast, in June of 1996, we visited with him over a three-day period, during which he answered questions from see-kers. His relentless conviction that Truth IS, and we exist as That, bears witness to his lifelong commitment to living a truly awakened life. Ranjit speaks very simply, often using homely examples to make a point. The following selections are from our meeting.

Reality
If you want to follow a practise, you have to follow someone who is realised. Met-hods are full of frustrations and give no real satisfaction. Reality has no method. Illusion has many methods, many problems and many concepts. To overcome illusion, or con-cepts, one should ask, "From where does all this thinking arise?" Thinking is always of other things. To know the thoughtless Reality, no thinking is required. It is where there is no thought. Whatever thing you think of doesn't exist. Everything is He only, and apart from Him there is nothing in the world. Whatever is thought of, makes Him so-mething other than what He is. When thinking ends, what happens? You go to zero.


Awakening is nothing but a complete, thorough understanding. A clear cut unders-tanding of a thing is awakening. Reality is not to be achieved, it is there. After this tho-rough understanding, nothing is required.


As long as the body is there, he acts. He calls his mother 'mother', and his wife 'wi-fe'. But still he knows. If somebody asks him, "What is your name?", he gives his name, but he knows, "I am not this." That clear cut understanding is required. Complete un-derstanding is called 'That'. Be in 'That'. Be like a lotus leaf - you are produced in water, you live in water , but you are not touched by water. Stay like that, nothing else. Once you know, "I am not this", then you become doubtless. My Master told me, "After un-derstanding, if you want to stay, then stay. Stay in jail, but remember: "I am not a vic-tim."" One cannot afford to leave the illusory so fast, so live there, but understand that , "I'm not the victim." Ego is such; in very many different shapes and different ways, he remains. So, one should always be aware, and then, once you are complete, there is not-hing to worry about. What you see is illusion. If you understand that 'myself' is illusion, then where does everything remain? People don't understand that illusion is nothing. How can it block you? How can nothing block you?


What you see and perceive is in you and not outside. You are not the body, take it for granted. When the mind takes up any thought and gets attached to it, then everything is seen as 'other' than Him.


In human nature, fear is always there. Everyone has fear, because, they believe "I am the body." Mind creates this fear and is nothing but your own concept. Fear arises in the mind due to the unsteadiness of the world. Every minute is changing. If you go beyond darkness and knowledge, then there is no fear at all. For example, a screen has no fear of any picture because it is steady. So, that which is not steady always has fear. Your mind changes every moment and cannot remain steady by itself. If your mind knows its own source or its own beginning, then only it can be happy. As long as there is a body, there is fear. If you want to be fearless, be what is fearless, because that which is has no end. The final Reality has no end and no beginning, it is limitless. It is so subtle, that all thoughts and concepts stop. Duality contains fear, oneness has no fear.


Take out the thorn of the ego. Take out the name and the shape and there is nothing. You see by your own understanding that everything is illusion. Experience it! You don't want to see because the mind doesn't allow you to see. The mind is the only hurdle which keeps you away from you. The mind says, "It is true." Tell the mind, "It is not true." Understand the mind, and then it doesn't remain.


You can see the space, you can observe the space, you can feel the space, but Reality is beyond space. Space is zero, where there is no silence, no voice, no peace, no state. All these are conditional things. Silence is also not He, peace is not He. He has nothing. If anything would have been there, then that would have been Reality, and not He. Not-hing can disturbs Him because it doesn't exist. Nothing is required for Reality, otherwi-se it would have disturbed that Reality.


Then, the aspirant may ask, "What should I do?" Do nothing! Words only go up to the space. Lord Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, "There, from where the words co-me, That is my Self." That is my Self. In the Bible, Christ also said the same thing: "Know thyself and you know the world." Go up to where thinking ends, go up to That, and there is the Self. So, I always call it, "Self without self". Self-realisation is Self wit-hout self. As long as 'realising' remains, self remains. The eyes have got the habit to see that which is not. The Master takes you up to That, up to the Reality and says, "Unders-tand yourself." This is the position.


Knowledge and Ignorance
Siddharameshwar Maharaj first gave knowledge, while our mythologists say that one should have renunciation first, then receive knowledge. He said that renunciation without knowledge is useless. It becomes a bondage of the mind. For example, a nice meal is prepared. There is a sweet smell and everybody wants to eat. But you tell the others, "Don't eat." They ask you, "Why not?" You then let them know that there is poi-son in the food. The knowledge of the poison leads to immediate renunciation. So, if at first there is knowledge, renunciation automatically must come.


First mental understanding is required and after that comes a practical understan-ding. Intellectual talent is the greatest thing. Without the intellect, one cannot unders-tand. So, you have to understand with the full intellect and then, that knowledge, or that understanding will submerge, because knowledge is a thought. A good thought or a bad thought, both are thoughts. So, knowledge is a golden thorn, and ignorance is an ordina-ry thorn and both are bondage. Suppose your hands have been put in handcuffs. Maybe they're iron cuffs or maybe they're golden, but it's still bondage. So, both are thorns. One should understand and throw them away. It is very difficult to throw out the know-ledge, because ego remains up till knowledge. Knowledge is the ego, nothing else. To erase that knowledge, one should say, "I know nothing." As Socrates said; "I know that I don't know."


There is no experience in Reality. What experience have you got when you sleep? That knowledge, or power is there and everything else is not. It is beyond ignorance and knowledge. For example, darkness and light go together. A light goes off and darkness is there, and if you turn on the light, darkness automatically goes away. They are one. In the same way, knowledge and ignorance are both one. In my Master's words, Siddhara-meshwar Maharaj, "Knowledge is the greatest ignorance." Through knowledge, we know That, which is nothing, and this is a trick, nothing else! One should know this trick.


What you know today, what you are going to know tomorrow, is all the same. In the same way, knowledge never changes. Due to ignorance, the effects differ. When you place a cover over the light, then there will be darkness, and when you take off the co-ver, light returns.


Remove the veil of ignorance which has come upon you. Take away the cloth in front of the light, and the light is there! In sleep one goes to this 'end'. Go to the "end" and find your Self. Finding out means forgetting your mind, your thoughts and your individuality.


Nothing needs to be demolished. Why demolish anything? What are these things? Things don't trouble you, but you go in and get troubles. This chair never says, "I am yours." You say, "It is my chair." So, who is at fault? Not the chair, but yourself. You have nothing to do with it. You should see the world that way.


You have to keep going. Hurdles must be there, but the hurdles should be overtaken. One should overcome the problems. A problem is a thought. From your childhood, you have accumulated many thoughts. Who has given you all those thoughts? Your father, your mother, your friends in your circle. Everything has come to you. They are all igno-rant people, so what can they give you? What can darkness give to light? Tell me. Not-hing, isn't it? What can you find in darkness? Nothing! All thoughts, all habits are not true. All have come to you due to ignorance. Go to the source from where they arise and they dissolve! All bondage is only a mental bondage which you have borrowed from someone else. Money that is borrowed is not yours. In the same way, you have borro-wed the thoughts of others and have taken them as your own bondage. How can it be? Throw off that bondage! Who stops you? Give the money to the creditor, and you are free of all debt! You have to be free of debt.


Master
How can you know when you have found a Master? There is no test or statistics. What is written in the books of Knowledge by many saints and experienced persons, should be experienced by you. A Master says, "This is salt". Books also describe salt. Put it in your mouth and see for yourself if it is salty. What the Master says, you must experience. You can find out only by 'tasting'.


When the Master teaches you, you can get the experience. Nothing is impossible in the world. You are He, so what is impossible? You don't understand this, you don't take it to heart. Due to the identification with body and mind, you say that you are not per-fect. Everything disappears in deep sleep, so why can you not go to the end of yourself? From where this power arises, find the source, and that is your Self. One can understand the final Reality if the Master gives you the right direction. If the address is wrong you cannot reach the destination. The Master should be perfect, only then he can show you the way to Reality.


All want to be a Master. Even between two boys, there is always one who will be the Master of the other. It is the nature of the power which is inside man. If you expe-rience for yourself what the Master says, if you can put your own stamp on it, then it is true. Otherwise, separation between Master and aspirant remains. In truth there is no duality between them. So the question of fear does not exist. When that is fully satisfied and there is the feeling that nothing remains to be acquired in the world, then one feels completely at peace. That satisfaction comes to you. One should experience for himself and then speak, otherwise one should keep quiet.


Faith is required up till understanding, only. Afterwards, 'no faith' is also required. Suppose you have got 60 lakhs (6 million) francs in the bank, and I say, "Keep faith." Is there any meaning in it? You say, "No, I know I have got it." Once you understand, on-ce the clear cut understanding comes, then even faith is not required. But to have faith, the ego should be surrendered. The small baby has so much faith in the mother, so the mother does everything for him. Before he cries, she gives him milk, and everything. Suppose the mother falls with her child. When she gets up, she first sees that her child is not hurt. In the same way, the Master is also that. When one has got the faith, He knows. All the aspirants' misunderstandings and doubts are cleared by Him. You have to know your Self only. You only represent or misrepresent yourself. If that understan-ding doesn't come then the ego will remain.


There is a saying in India, "With one piece of turmeric, one cannot open a grocer's shop." Many people talk of God even though they do not know God. Why? Because they are always moving in the opposite direction from Him. If you want to go to the mountains in the north, and you go to the south, how can you reach the mountains? Where is God and Who is God? One should know He is not outside, but within you! Thoughts are naturally directed to the outside; they should turn toward the Self with the help of the Master.


Find out, "Who you are." When all thoughts end, He is there. Forget everything that you have learned up till now, then He is there. In this way, one is at peace. Peace comes from within ourselves. Christ says: "Know thyself and you will know the world." When you go to the very end of yourself, the question of peace does not arise. Nothing re-mains; you are yourself.

 
Death
Understand for yourself that death is nothing. Know that, "I am birthless, I am deathless, I have never taken birth and I will never die." Take the poisonous tooth out of the serpent and play with him. You know it is not going to do any harm to you. Death is nothing. Everyday, when you sleep it is like a small death. Why to fear? Nothing is the-re. Everything is illusion. Keep your mind in that fearless state only. Just as the poiso-nous tooth is taken out, in the same way, play with the world, play with the illusion, there is no harm. It won't affect your mind. Live fearlessly; no death, no fear, knowing "I am that real Power." There is nothing! What will harm you?


I can tell you, but you have to take out the thorn. It doesn't exist, take it for granted. It doesn't exist, but you feel its existence. The difficulty is that you don't leave it alone. You are afraid of what will happen. Nothing else is going to happen. Nothing has hap-pened up to now, and so what is going to happen now? So, to take out the thorn of the ego, always say: "I know nothing, I don't see, I don't hear, I don't eat, I don't sleep, I don't walk, I do nothing." Then, 'I' is not there and the ego must go.


One should be brave to truly live. When you are brave, fear does not remain. Be brave and have faith in the Master. Do what he says, because you and He are one. Throw off the veil. It is easy to leave that which is nothing, but difficult to see That which is present and which you have forgotten. There is an Indian custom in which sweets are distributed to all the relatives on the 13th day after death. What is the mea-ning of this? It is: The person is not dead, he never dies.


Reprinted from the Fall 1996 issue of the Inner Directions Journal.
Copyright © 1996 Inner Directions Foundation
All rights reserved. www.InnerDirections.org




Crow

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 3832
Re: Entretiens avec Ranjit Maharaj
« Reply #3 on: Marzo 19, 2009, 09:45:08 am »
An Interview with Ranjit Maharaj
by Anne and Darrell Newberg

 

Siddharameshwar Maharaj

Cuestion: The very first time that you met Siddharameshwar Maharaj, at the age of twelve, how did you know that he was your master?

Ranjit Maharaj: I saw him and he conquered me. That's the main point. Since my birth my thoughts have always been on the side of the Gods - Lord Krishna, Rama and other Gods in Hindu mythology.
 
I was praying with full heart from the age of six. I was very much engrossed in wor-shipping Lord Krishna with very much devotion. I would go to temples and go on pil-grimages. All my family members were also worshipping along with me. At that time, my health was very weak and I was fasting and doing many, many things. There's one extra month that comes in India, it's called 'Purshutamath', Lord Krishna's month. Du-ring this month I was not speaking, even when I was having my meals. I just want to say that during this period I was doing so many things,.

At a certain age I got into an accident. I was walking together with my father and a cart conductor ran over my leg. The bones were broken in three places. It was complete-ly bandaged. Also, at the time my mother was pregnant, so my neighbour took charge of me. She was a very religious minded old lady. In the end, I lived with her for twenty years. And as she was very religious minded, more of these kinds of thoughts came upon me. Her nephew was working in a solicitor's office where the managing clerk was named Mr. Okaria, a man who was in touch with Siddharameshwar Maharaj at that ti-me. Her nephew was of a very different nature because he didn't believed in God. In 1925, he went with Mr. Okaria to Siddharameshwar Maharaj's birthplace (Pathri), just to see what was there. My master's personality was so great that when someone came in contact with him, they could not go away untouched. So, although her nephew was a non-believer in God, still he took the mantra from Siddharameshwar Maharaj. When he returned to Bombay, he said to me, "When Siddharameshwar Maharaj comes to Bom-bay, I'll take you to him. You must get the mantra." I took his mantra and his bliss. Au-tomatically, it came upon me. Although I was a believer in idol Gods and I was wors-hipping them just like a fanatical person, the next day I left them. How? I don't know.
 
But when I saw him I forgot Lord Krishna. That is the greatest thing which I saw in him. So, what I want to say is that when I saw him, I felt very natural, I tell you, and I forgot Lord Krishna, bas! (finished)! In all this - nothing remained in me. So, in this way I met my master and by his grace I understood. All honour goes to him and not to me.

Some people ask me, "When we can get this (understand Reality), how will it hap-pen?" It happens if your mind desires It very abruptly. So, since I met him that day, I forgot all the words. I realised that the master is the only person in the world from whom you can get something. His knowledge was so great and simple. He never used big, complicated words and he was a believer that the Vedas - the highest sacred books in India - should be taught to women and children too. He was so sure of his own reali-sation of Reality and he felt that it was everybody's birthright to understand. Only in a human body can you achieve this. Otherwise, animals and birds for example, have no discrimination power. The power is the same, but the contrivance of discrimination is not there. Only the human body has got the contrivance of discrimination - between good and bad, between what is Reality and what is unreal, between what is illusion and what is God.

Q: When you first met your master, did you reject everything all at once?

RM: Yes. 'Rejected' means - I left what my life was then - worshipping was my life. So I rejected that first. Then, what else is there to reject? After that, nothing needs to be rejected, no? But my family members were against me. My mother was coming to hear him, but still she and my family were against me. I never cared for them. I said to them all, "I don't care for you". I was a very strong minded man, I tell you (laughs).

Q: You have to be, no?

RM: One should be. Unless you become strong minded you can't accept the Reality. It counts upon your death. One side is death and one side is Reality. I accept the death. "You are not going to die because you are the Reality". That much will power, one must have. My family members were very much against me, my brothers and many people. I said, "I don't care for anybody." So, one should have that great understanding. Unders-tanding makes you stronger. Nothing else. If you call a doctor, he will say to you, "I will cure you, don't worry." He then gives you the medicine. You should accept it, no? He has got that understanding. Other doctors say that you will die. So, no, don't worry about it. Have the faith in yourself. If you loose your faith in yourself, then you are lost. You become the smallest creature in the world. What is there (shows with his hand the space between thumb and index finger)? There are so many people in the world, no? What is the meaning of one person? He may be the greatest of the greatest, but what is there? Unless you know that everybody is He (Reality), then you can understand the real greatest of the great. Then everybody is He. People don't understand this. What to do? They don't take it to heart. They say, "What will happen if I do this then?" That doubt always comes in the mind. Mind is always doubtful. So one should not worry about the mind. Throw off your mind, throw off your ego. Have the understanding of Reality in yourself. That was his mission and he gave that mission. Today I dare say to anybody, "Why worry, you are He." There must be some power in your mind, otherwise how could you even say anythiing? Some people may say, "Okay, we'll kill you, becau-se you are He, no?" So, kill me. I say that I never cared for anybody. You have to un-derstand. Discrimination power should be used by yourself. Discrimination of the mind. There, mind helps you. Mind is there to help you to understand Reality, and if you want the Reality, he can do anything for that.

There are so many examples in the Indian mythology about this. There was a devo-tee of Lord Krishna and some Narana. The word 'Narana' means mind. So some Narana dressed up as a saint and said to a Krishna devotee, "Cut your child up, and while doing so you should not cry. You must sing nice bhajans or nice things during this, and finally you must cook your child." She did it. Her husband was also devoted to Krishna. They cut the boy up - they took him from his school and they cut the boy up. She didn't cry. She then cooked him and gave it to Narana, who was dressed as a saint. Narana said, " You have no child now, you are a barren woman." She was so strong and replied to him, " Forget that! I've had a child in my stomach before and now I am carrying a second child." And then what did Narana say? He had understood - she had the greatest devo-tion for the Reality. He called that second boy, "Come Raul" - his name was Raul - "Raul come!" He came then. Narana then understood that the boy had never died. No-body dies. These are the examples given in the mythological books. One should unders-tand that. People say, "How can we do it? We are such a small creature." Why? Have the courage, do anything to achieve the Reality. Nothing else.

If your body goes let it go! Siddharameshwar Maharaj always said, " I will leave my body, I don't care, but I will achieve my Reality." He was a very strong person. He was going to the gymnasium and at that time he was doing one thousand dunda`s, (push-ups)! One thousand at a stretch he was doing, he was so strong! But when his master died (Bhausaheb Maharaj), I think, 5 or 6 years after he realised that understanding in the mind, so he said to his co-disciples who were travelling with him, that they should go ahead, go further. He said, "Meditation is not the last point. One should go further ahead." But they said to him, "But our master has not told us that!" He replied, "Let master not say, but can you still not go?" He was so strong in the mind. Then he left their company. They were 3 or 4 co-disciples, and they were moving around, giving that understanding to people. He said, "No, I don't go." At first, for 9 months he sat on one peak, a hillside in Bijapur and he achieved the Reality. Then he left. All this is so mira-culous, I tell you. If you have got faith in the master, then everything becomes a miracle I tell you! And he achieved the Reality. To achieve the Reality, one should not care for the body. Don't care for the body. Don't care for the self. Then you can become He. Forget everything, then you can achieve It, why not? One can achieve It. It's very easy to know oneself. What is there? But the problem is that you don't loose the love for the illusion. What to do? That illusion always keeps you attracted. Forget that illusion! When he was still alive he gave that understanding to many people in this way.

All are equal, but it depends upon the acceptor, how much he accepts. Teachers or professors in the school or college, they teach everybody the same thing. The one who has got more caliber or more accepting power, he comes first in the class. So, there is no discrimination with the teaching. All are equal, anybody can come. Siddharameshwar Maharaj never believed in any religion, also. He was giving his own sermons without any distinction, and it was open to anybody, even if they belonged to a religion. He taught in such a nice way.


Q: How exactly did he teach this knowledge to people?

RM: He was giving daily sermons for one hour. He was not going to many places, because he never wanted fame. So, he was coming to Bombay, going to Bijapur, and nearby there is a place called Bagewadi and also in Sholapur. In these four places he was giving his sermon from the books of knowledge. In Marathi, there is Dasbodh, writ-ten 400 years ago by Ramdas Maharaj. That is a book in our lineage and on that book he was giving lectures when he was in Bombay, for one and a half months or two months of the year. The sermons were everyday in the evening, from quarter to seven to quarter to eight. And then, the bhajans followed, which we did at night. After bhajans, people returned home. So, for about one and a half months, two months he was staying in Bombay. He was also spending the same amount of time in Sholapur. The same know-ledge was given everywhere. He was speaking in a very simple Marathi language. His motto was, "High, complicated words are not required, as it is beyond the reach of the human mind." So, he was giving very simple examples of daily life so that one can un-derstand very easily.

One book was Dasbodh, another was Yoga Vashista, another was Saachara, written by Shankaracharya, and Ecknath Bhagavad (Gita), which describes the whole life of Krishna and what he taught to his disciples. That was written by Ecknath Swami, who was a great realised person. 'Ecknath' means 'Lord is one only'. Whose master is one, is Ecknath. He has written many historic stories of Krishna , there are many, and so many fights also. Siddharameshwar Maharaj told us to only try and understand the main mea-ning of that fighting. What is that fighting? What is the meaning of fighting? What is karma? What are reactions? All these things are in the Bhagavad Gita. Four books he used to teach us. Beginning, was knowledge from Ramdas Swami's book. Then, for renunciation, Yoga Vashista.. Rama was in a state of humiliation and then his master, Vashista gave him knowledge, and how he became Lord Rama. Otherwise, he was a son of a king. Then, finally he took Shankaracharya. After understanding and renouncing, it describes how a person stays in his life. He has so nicely given Shankaracharya (Saa-chara) - how he lives, how he takes his life and how he understands what Reality is, what final Reality is, what thoughtless Reality is. All these topics are covered.

He first gave the knowledge. He told us that people say that renunciation should come first, but he didn't agree with them. But, first by knowledge, if you renounce, then you can understand. Otherwise, if you renounce without knowledge, then things may change at any moment. Mind may change at any moment, no? For example: a nice kha-na (meal) is prepared, or biryani rice is prepared. Sweet smell is coming and everybody wants to eat. If you say, "Don't eat." He'll say, "Why, this is mine?" Then he asks, "Why are you telling me not to eat?" You then say, "I'm sorry but there is poison in it." As he has got the knowledge of poison, he renounces without delay. So, if knowledge is there first, renunciation automatically must come. Will you still like to eat it? Nobody likes it. So, if knowledge comes, then you don't like it. Mind may go a thousand times there. A young chap goes near the candle, he wants to hold it. Mother, father what do they say? "Don't hold it!" They refrain him for what reason? He should not be burnt, nothing else. Same way, if you understand the knowledge, then you can renounce very easily, no? It's an illusion, everything is zero. If that understanding comes in the mind, then how much time does it take to renounce? Just when that man only said, "Poison is there", then no-body will eat, no? Once you understand that khana is poisonous, you never think of ea-ting, even though you may be hungry. Stay in that way. After understanding, doubt doesn't remain anywhere and then you can renounce very easily.

Many people dressed up as saints and went out, for four months, six months, eight months - as they liked. After some time Siddharameshwar told them, "Now take off these saffron clothes and be a simple man as you were beforehand." All these things, nobody will say that. Many masters are there, but they never say, "Take out your clot-hes." He said, "Be a simple person. Understanding has come to you, right over you now. Why should this show be there?" So if you understand that way, then you can easily throw off the clothes also. People want saffron clothes so then they can say, "Oh, they bow down at my feet at once!" Ego remains always in the mind. So, he said, "Renounce the renunciation now." And then he gave that final understanding of Reality. So, he was the greatest of the greatest of that time. An unknown saint of that time, what to do? He never wanted fame, never wanted to say anything in public. Those who were coming to him, he was giving his lectures. Twelve years he gave the lectures, his full understan-ding. And then, what did he tell us? He said, "I never asked anything from you. Today I say, you have realised, you have understood, now don't forget my master's bhajans". And that was his greatness, I tell you! Now I feel this. At that time I may not be feeling, I don't know, I can't say anything. One who is now realised, what is the meaning of that, once you have understood this Reality? But that ego is always there, it comes in the way and takes you to the wrong path. So, forget that ego! Forget it, there's no harm.

Q: After you met your master, how did you live your everyday life?

RM: A very simple life I was living. I was taking education at a school at that time. I was just twelve years old. My mind was not there. Though I went up to matriculation, and then failed there, and finally I said I would no longer learn any more required knowledge. My mother was very kind to me, so she never forced me, insisted on me. My father died when I was at the age of six, so there is no question of father coming there. But mother can force me to get married and all those things, but she never forced me. All this is by his grace (looking at his master's picture).

Illusion always fights with the realised persons. In our language, they say 'maya'. 'Maya' is a Sanskrit word - 'ma' means 'not', and 'ya' means 'which'. 'Which is not' is an illusion, or 'maya'. So, that illusion always fights. One should be stubborn in his life - " Let come what may, but I will never submit to you." In this way, after twelve years my master left his body in 1936 at the age of 48, giving all the understanding, complete thorough understanding - what realisation is, what final realisation is, what Reality is, what thoughtless Reality is. All these things, he so nicely explained, so one can easily achieve It. It is his grace, what I speak. Once, one person asked the question here, "You're also an illusion or not?" As long as there is 'I', there is illusion. What question does not remain to ask? When 'I' goes off, or 'ego' goes off, how can illusion stay? Whe-re there is light, darkness can never remain. So, one should listen to the master with full faith in him, that's enough. You can ask your doubts, there's no harm, but what he says, you should take to heart. Everything is possible, there's nothing to worry about. Then man is He, and not a man. In 1936, when he passed away, I was living my simple life only, and I never wanted to be a master, (laughs) because why even want those things, require fame and this - "I'm a master and he's a disciple", all these things. I was not tea-ching anybody until 1983, but by his order or grace, I had to be a master, and at the moment I teach you (laughs). I started in 1983. Why? Because my master's granddaugh-ter-in-law wanted a mantra. She said to me, "I want a mantra from you." If I didn't give her a mantra, then I'd be faithless to Siddharameshwar Maharaj.

Q: So this is how you started teaching?

R. M.: Yes, yes, I started with that only. One should not be faithless to him. Because he has given such a right thing. Nobody can give that in the world, I tell you. It was his courage, so much strength in it when he was speaking, so strongly he was stating that one can understand, why not? Mind should be changed, nothing else. 'Conquered me' means - he changed my mind, nothing else. Conquered means that he didn't do anyt-hing, no miracle, but still he said, "You can see many Gods, why to worry." He had to say that much. At that time I was not ready, no? I did not know anything. I did not even know 'Brahma' (God) or 'maya' - the illusion. 'Brahma' or illusion, I never knew anyt-hing. 'God' was an idol only, that was my idea. Don't worry for that. If a blank paper is there you can write very fast on it. If it is paper that is written on, then you can't write, no? You have to make many scratches over it. So, there was nothing for him to say. He gave me, within 12 years he taught in such a nice way.

Ramdas Maharaj has written a whole chapter on 'worship'. His disciples asked him, "What is the necessity of worshipping now? What you have understood is that nirguna - God is there. Then why to go for sadguna (worship)?" Then he said that, "You do eve-rything or not already? You eat, you sleep, you go to the toilet. If anybody comes, you say, "Come in. It is mine, it is yours." In this way the understanding remains. As long as the body is there, understanding remains or not? Then why do you want to forget him, the master?" In that lineage, there were always bhajans and he was also doing bhajans. He did it up to his last moment, you follow? Then, what happens? Nothing remains for you. So you don't want anything from him. He never wanted anything from his master, but still why did he worshipped him? To do service, but also to honour him. Nothing else. Service - a brave man can do that. He wanted nothing from him. So he taught and we accepted, because it was a true thing. And that's the only thing which one can do after understanding. What to do then? Tell me! You are He. Now, what to do? Still you are doing everything, no? So why to leave the bhajans? That is ego - "Now I am a reali-sed person, why should I worship? No need." Still he said to us, "Have some faith in the master or faith in your Self. Faith should be for One only. So have faith in your Self." But still, sometimes that takes you to the wrong path, that ego comes in. So he always told us, "Do what I have told you, don't do what I am doing." He was always saying this. I may do anything, according to the body. For example, he had diabetes, so he could not eat sugar. So does this mean that his disciples should also not eat sugar? That's nonsense, no? So he said, "Everything that I do, don't do it, but what I say, do it. Preserve that in your mind, that power which I have given to you. Preserve that nicely, so that you can do anything and everything in the world." Because the world is 'not' (or doesn't exist), so what is there to do in the 'not' and what is there not to do in the 'not', tell me?

Many disciples may come today, may not come tomorrow, why should He worry? Water never worries for anybody. If you are thirsty, then you go to the river, no? The river provides water and your thirst is completed. So I had to start like this. His grand-daughter-in-law asked me. Because, I never wanted to be a master, I tell you. It was his wish now, because everybody is He. After leaving the body you are everywhere. So I said to her, "After two hours I will give you the mantra, but let me first think it over." I had to think and ponder over it and then I started. And today sixteen years have passed now, in 1983 I started. Don't worry! If the child cries for milk mother says, "Wait." She makes the milk hot and then makes cold and then gives it, no? It should be digestible. So master is always just like a protector. He protects you everywhere. Whatever you say is true. And he has got that power to make that truth. Whatever you say - no harm. Sup-pose somebody's child says something unclear, and then its mother or father says it clea-rer: "He wanted to say this, he wanted to say that." So He is a protector. One should have the greatest faith, faith beyond your life for the master! Then, it is very easy. What harms you? Where is the knowledge going away to? Yourself is He! In this way, I was lucky enough to get that real master. So I never saw anybody else. There where many others - Ramana Maharshi was there, Rajneesh was there. Many, many people were there, but I never wanted to go to them. What need? When your belly is full you don't need to go to a restaurant, no? What is the meaning? If somebody offers you nice bis-cuits, you say "Oh, I am sorry, I'm full, I can't eat it." Brahmins are known for their la-doos (sweats). So many Brahmins were called together, and they were eating ladoos and then after eating, rice was served. You know, this is an Indian custom. One of them said, "If I would have place still for rice I would have taken more ladoos instead. I would have not left any ladoos (laughs)." There is no place for it.

So, he has given so much knowledge, to not go anywhere. "Everywhere you are, everywhere you are He." And that understanding he brought to me and that is his grace, that he gave me that understanding. And I can dare say today to anybody: "You are He, now go! Don't worry." Now it is upon you how to accept it! If you accept it fully, then, what remains? You are also one of the saints, why not? Do anything, no harm, but still have the courage to understand. Tell your mind, "Go away, I don't want you, because you always take the objection." In the race, objection is taken by the person who finis-hes second, no? Sometimes it is overruled and sometimes they have to submit also. So don't take any objection in the mind. Be frank enough and say to yourself that,"I am He always". So I always say, "If you are in heaven or hell, you are still He. Don't worry about it." Body affairs don't mean anything, why to worry about it? Have complete un-derstanding, and that the master gives you, nothing else. Nobody can give you that un-derstanding. He gives this understanding in that way. So I dare say now, "If you want to kill, kill somebody. Don't worry if you go to the gallows. Body is going to the gallows, I never go to the gallows." So I go to the extreme sometimes when I tell you. I like to use extreme examples. No need to kill anybody. Whom to kill? When everybody is He - what to kill? But still, mind should be so strong enough - don't worry for anything. Be-cause you are doing nothing, you are doing everything in a dream! What you have done in the dream is not true, take it for granted. One should have that much understanding and that much power to accept it.

Q: In Reality, there are no objects, no experience, no experiencing and no experien-cer, like you told us before.

RM : Yes, there is no experience.

Q : If you are Reality then how can you understand, because understanding requires an object?

RM: Yes, okay.

Q: Do you see what I mean?

RM: Yes, I understood. Forget everybody, then you are He or not?

Q: So you have to forget everything?

RM: Yes. Forget all! And then you are He. As you don't forget, all these things - mind, body, human soul, the power which is in you - you have to forget that also, and go beyond this. Leave everything, and then? You are He. He's One only. Who will ex-perience? When there is a Oneness, then no question of experience comes up. He is the-re, no? Forget everything and you are always there. So I give the example - You go into a room to find out if someone is there. There is nobody. Everybody has gone. But He (Reality) was there without telling. So, without saying anything, you are He. There's no need to say, "I was there."

There's another example I often use - ten men swim across a river. When they arrive on the other bank, one of them decides to count to see if all ten have arrived safely. He only counts nine. So, another tries and he also counts only nine. They all try and they all arrive at nine. So they begin to cry because one has not made it across. Then someone watching them comes over and tells one of them to recount. When he arrives at nine, he slaps him and says, "Tenth is found!" He got the slap and he said, "Oh, I understood, tenth is here." Each one forgot to count himself. In the same way, you remain your Self. Whom to experience now, who will experience Him? There is no duality at all. Duality always brings trouble. Or when the knowledge comes, triad, the number three comes in the knowledge. If you know anything, then triad remains or not? You are the observer, you are observing something, and the observing process, all three remain. Shankara-charya says, "If the triad doesn't remain then you are He. Whom to experience?" How can you experience your Self? Even to see your face, you have to use a looking glass. You can't see your face without a looking glass. You can see your whole body, but you can't see your face. So, when you are He, what is there to experience? The one who says, "I experienced", he has not experienced, I tell you!

The second day of the moon comes. It's just a thin line only. So somebody says, "See there, there's some cloud and there is some tree you see, and nearby there is some small thin line (the moon)." If you don't experience, then you are lost. And if you un-derstand, one who has understood, he gives you that understanding. One who has seen that, only he can give you the same understanding. "The moon is there, like very small thin line." But what do people do? They go to see these trees, branches of the trees or even the cloud and say, "Oh, we have understood." They have not seen That! One who has seen, he will never ask for anything. Because he's He, he understands then. If nobo-dy is there, then are you there or not? So you are always proving yourself by negation. You can't say, "I am this." Say, "I am not this!" Somebody knocks on the door and you say, "Come in, there is nobody." But you are there, without telling. So, Reality is like that. No experience is required. But if you go towards experience, then you make the triad again. But if nobody is there, then you are there, no? So I always say, "Close your eyes and then you are there. What to experience for that? You will remain always there. Nobody is there - no you, no self, no knowledge, no ignorance and no knowing also." Then the understanding automatically comes, there's nothing to worry about. He teaches you in that way.

Suppose you put both your legs outside, so you are not in the room. You are outside. Otherwise,if you put one leg inside, then you are a trespasser. So if you do something to understand Him also, you forget Him. So, do everything but understand, "I don't exist." So, the one who is real never keeps the ego. He does everything, he does anything but still he says, "I don't exist." One who doesn't exist, then what remains for him? Kno-wing is wrong, it is not true, an illusion. You are not doing anything! Cinema screen doesn't do anything but shows everything, no? In the same way, you do nothing but you show everything. You show the whole world. So one who understands the screen, then he never says what is not true. If someone dies in the film which is showing on the screen, the ladies cry, at least in India they cry. They say,"Oh, he is gone!" and they cry. But one who understands that it is only a film, then does he cry? He says, "Oh, it was a picture only on the screen. Nothing has happened." In the same way, one should unders-tand that nothing is happening. Everything is zero. Whatever happens in zero, is it true? In your dreams, you do many things. Can you say it's true when you awake? Awakening should come here and ignorance should go off. When awakening comes, then you forget everything that has happened in the dream. You say, "Dream was wrong." In the same way here also, say, "This dream is a wrong dream, nothing else." The next day, when you sleep, everything goes off, disappears. Where is the world? You don't even remain yourself. You don't even know your name. Then you dream, and in the dream you take another name. In the dream, you have another name. You are a poor chap, or you might even become a king there. So, not to worry about anything. So, one who says, "I have understood", he has not understood, I can say that! There is nothing to understand. Whom to understand? If you say, "I know my Self", then what is the meaning of it, tell me. One knows automatically the Self. You take the body as Self so you are mistaken, and that is due to ignorance. The power which works in you is there or not? When that power is disconnected, where does the power go? Power remains as nothing, it becomes null and void. That knowledge then goes off.


When you die what happens? You forget everything. Then who takes the birth? If the last wish of a dying man is, "I must have a body" then that makes him take birth again. Nobody puts you in birth and nobody makes you die, I tell you always. When the disconnection comes, then automatically one dies, what to do? He may be 10 years old, 20 years old or even 100 years old. When he dies, all knowledge goes off and the five elements return to zero. The five elements are zero. Knowledge becomes zero. What remains? The wish which you had of the body, that makes you take the birth. So, rebirth is always there. If you understand that I am not this (pointing to his body), I am somet-hing else other than this, then you will never think that "I must have a body." There is always a problem with the body, no? Whoever he may be - a very strong man, but still he has some problems in life. So birth is a problem and death is also a problem. In bet-ween, all problems come and go. You carry on with the problems only. Happiness is this much (shows a very little space between his thumb and index finger) and trouble is this much (shows large span with his arms). You go on working for 30 days, and then you get the salary, no? (Laughter) You have to work. Nobody gives you your salary in advance. You have to toil! So you have to toil here also. To be rich is not easy. You have to do and make many things. And often, there are many wrong things you have to do. Then you may become rich. One hundred people become poor and you become rich. What is there? Money is not coming only to you, it is always in circulation. Forget the idea that,"I am rich or I am poor." It's nothing! If you understand the Reality, then you are neither poor nor rich. All are equal. Then nothing remains. That is his teaching, fo-llow me (giggles).

Q: So that discrimination power between what is real and what is not real, through the reflection of the Truth, it becomes stronger and stronger?

RM: Yes, exactly.

Q: So it's a process?

RM: Yes, it's a process, but one can also do it in one moment. Mind is a process. If the mind doesn't agree, then you have to make it a process. But if the mind agrees, then? Take H2O, for example. If you don't understand this, then you do many, many things to try to understand. "How can two parts of hydrogen and one part of oxygen be water?", you say. You first need to know many things, then you can say why it is so. In the same way, a process is required to strengthen your mind, nothing else. If the mind turns to that side, then everything is lost, but don't worry. You are not the loser, you can prove anything you like. You have got that power. Understand that, "If I do something then it's a trouble for me, nothing else." So there is a saying - "An uneasy life lies ahead for the one that wears the crown." Most people feel that the king is very happy. He knows what happiness is because he has got everything. But he has to worry for everybody. In the night, if something happens, all the people phone to the king, no? "This has happened, so what should we do now? Give your orders!"

All this, even the greatness of the world is nothing but a zero. You feel, "I am so great, I am the greatest of the greatest!" No, the greatest is He! He is in everybody and does everything. So why to worry? If you want to do anything, do it! One should not worry about it. If you worry then you are lost. Problems come to you also, no? Somebo-dy kills somebody, and if you say, "Oh, I have seen him commit the murder", then, you have to go to the court again and again to give your witness. If one says, "I don't know what has happened?", what has he to do? Nothing! Because nothing has happened, what to do? Killer is He and the one who is killed is also He. Who kills whom? In that way, who am I to be a witness also? Witness is nothing but losing your Self. Don't be a wit-ness. Don't do anything and you are He always. But you always want to do something, so what to do? Mind always wants to do something. The mind is the greatest 'mischief monger', he always makes mischief. Many people come to me, they tell me all their worldly problems, and I laugh in my mind. (Laughter) What to do? It is all due to the mind's mischief.

Q: They probably still feel that they can get something from the illusion.

RM: They wish, but if I tell them that nothing is there, then? Then, they make a face like this (makes a sad face). What to do? "Master says it's nothing, everything is not-hing". What to do? But one who has got some understanding and who wants the Reality, he accepts. So one should try to accept that, nothing else.

Mind should be taken to that side (Reality). Turn your mind, nothing else. One should turn the mind. Mind is the greatest thing, it makes all the differences. Good man, bad man, worst man - mind makes the difference. People say, "From day by day, it's going from bad to worse". Nothing is the 'worst'. According to your mind it happens, no? In our time, we were getting twelve kilos of rice for 4 rupees. Now, one kilo is bet-ween 52 and 60 rupees! Time changes, so why to worry? The world is going ahead and ahead. So, Siddharameshwar Maharaj has written in 1926 that, "The world is galloping towards hell." One finally goes where? One dies and everything ends. Nothing remains for him. So you are always free.

There were freedom fighters fighting for the independence of India. Once Sidd-harameshwar Maharaj said, "Don't think that after gaining independence from the Bri-tish that it will rain gold! Rain of water is sure to come. After independence, you will have to toil more." For example, if you are under the protection of your father, then do you have to worry more? No. He looks after everything. But when you become inde-pendent, then you have to worry about everything - "What to do, how to do it, how to earn money?" All these questions come in the mind. The mind is like this. So he said, "Okay, I may be independent, but how much trouble is there now, you don't see that. Forget the independence! Reality is always there and everything that is happening is okay. Nothing is bad and nothing is good, take this in the mind." If anything goes against your wish, say " It is for my good, because I am the creator. I have created this!" That should be the understanding. Why to worry about anything? If death comes to the body, then say, "It's okay, I am prepared to die, because I am not that." Who dies? No-body dies. Death has no value. Everything is zero and becomes zero. What is death, tell me? What is here (pointing to a cupboard)? Light a fire in it and then it becomes zero. It's the same for everything. What is there? Let everything be there and understand that it is not true.

Q: So in a sense, should we stop creating things?

RM: Don't create anything! Create your Self (laughs). Find out Reality, create your Reality more and more. Then, automatically you will understand that it's nothing, just a play! Suppose a small boy is playing cards with you. He puts an eight down, but he says, "King!". "I am the winner", he then says. Your love is there. You say, "Yes, yes, you win". Same thing, nothing else. So everybody says, "I am the winner"! "Yes, yes, you are the winner, I am defeated." Take it for granted because I don't exist. Who is defeated? When I don't exist, then who is defeated? Nobody is defeated. You take it as true and then defeat comes to you. So forget everything and you are He without doing anything now. Eyes bring everything, no? Close your eyes then you are He. How much time does it take? But you don't accept that, so what to do? When you close your eyes, you are there or not? You without you, Self without self is there. Why to worry? If eve-rything becomes zero, you are not going to be zero. Screen remains always the same. Many pictures come and go. When the end comes, then all the people go. You pay mo-ney, sit for three hours and still you have to go home without getting anything (giggles). So this is a fancy of the mind. Mind fancies always. What fancy will come to him, one cannot say. Understanding should come, nothing else. Siddharameshwar Maharaj gave that understanding, so, I am still living at 87, take it for granted (giggles). Otherwise I would have died and gone at any time, huh? My body was always weak. Now I am stronger, I tell you! (giggles) When I was at school I have taken permission, "I won't go to the gymnasium and play sports!" I couldn't do it, no? Weak body was there, what to do? Permission was taken from the headmaster. "I will sit and look at others doing their work."

Q: Maharaj, what is awakening?

RM: Awakening is nothing but understanding - a complete thorough understanding. A clear cut understanding of a thing is awakening.

Q: And it's a mental understanding?

RM: First, mental is required and then practical is required. Talent is the greatest thing, intellectual talent. Without the intellect, one cannot understand. So, you have to understand with the full intellect and then, that knowledge, or that understanding should submerge, because knowledge is a thought. A good thought or a bad thought, both are thoughts. So, knowledge is a golden thorn, and ignorance is an ordinary thorn. And it's a bondage, both are bondage. Suppose your hands have been put in cuffs, maybe they're iron or maybe golden, but it's still bondage. So, both are thorns. One should understand and then throw them away. It is very difficult to throw out the knowledge, because ego remains up to knowledge. Knowledge is ego, nothing else. To erase that knowledge, one should say, "I know nothing." As Socrates said, "I know that I don't know." In this way I understood that even after understanding, one should always think of his mind, thoughts, knowledge and ego. It could come in any time, any moment, you can't say. One should always be on the alert, because ego is such a thing, it can erupt at any mo-ment.

Q: This discrimination, between real and unreal, does it just come to the person or do you have to achieve it?

RM: One has to achieve it. Mind is just like a knife - it should be sharpened at every moment. If the master is there, he sharpens your mind. When he's not there, you have to sharpen your own mind. Because the illusion is such, one can be thrown off from any place. Illusion wants that the person be under 'my' control. He opposes illusion, so the illusion doesn't like him and tries in any way to take him down, or attract him in any-way. So, it is said, "You have to walk on a sword. Any little mistake, and you will get cut." In this way, one should go, one can go. Reality is not to be achieved, it is there. The farmer works, everything comes up, finally the corn comes, but still he has to work and harvest it. In the same way here also. After receiving or understanding the final Reality, one should be on his guard. After a thorough understanding, then nothing is required.

Q: So, is that the advice you give to your disciples?

RM: I teach them that when doubts come, I have to solve their doubts.

Q: You have to solve them?

RM: I must. Always, because I give sermons every Sunday in Bombay. For the ma-jority, their doubts are automatically cleared in the next sermon. One who has got more doubts, he can come and ask, and I give them my full co-operation. I don't believe in these big, big fuss's - that one should take an appointment, and one should do this. It's all nonsense. Why? When you say it is all an illusion, why do you make the illusion more in you? (laughs) Ego only wants that, no? "I am a great saint and they should ask me..." and all these things, it's all nothing! One should put his own self at the feet, which means, in the teaching of the master. If one can do that, then I can take him up to the door of the Reality, and after that, he has to experience. There, I am not there. Because your master and the experience, both are one. There is no duality, there is no duality. Is there anything more?

Q: I have a few more questions. One is, can the individual all of a sudden choose to wake up, or does the awakening happen only when the time is right?

RM: What the master teaches, if you have got full faith in it, why then can one not learn? It's not so that it will take time, or suddenly it will come. I don't believe in that. You must have the faith.

Q: And if you don't have that faith?

RM: Then it's useless. Faith is required up to understanding only. Afterwards, 'no faith' is also required. Suppose you have got 60 lakhs (6 million) francs in the bank, and I say, "Keep faith." Is there any meaning in it? You say, "No, I know I have got it." On-ce you understand, when a clear cut understanding comes, then even faith is not requi-red. There are many steps here. Step by step you have to go up. 'Suddenly', I don't be-lieve in 'suddenly'. Many people say this and many saints even say it. 'Suddenly', I don't believe. When you've got 60 lakhs in the bank, why talk of 'suddenly'? You know! If you've forgotten it's my duty to make you understand.

Q: Would you say that the faith comes when there is surrender?

RM: Ego should be surrendered.

Q: So as long as there is someone who thinks he is other than That, then it cannot work?

RM: Yes. The small baby has so much faith in the mother, so the mother does eve-rything for him. Before he cries, she gives milk, and everything. In the same way, the master is also like that. If you've got faith, then nothing is impossible. Suppose a women falls with a child. When she gets up, she first sees that the child is not hurt. In the same way, the master also knows. When one has got the faith, He knows, so all his misun-derstandings and doubts are cleared by Him. Otherwise, how can 'suddenly' or 'abruptly' come up? How can it come up? You have to know your Self only. You only represent or misrepresent your Self. If that understanding doesn't come then the ego will remain.

Q: So, once you know or once you've tasted, then how can any doubts arise. Is that what you're saying?

RM: Yes, you become doubtless, no? Once you know, "I am not this", then? My master told me, "After understanding, if you want to stay, stay. Stay in the jail if you like, but take it in your mind that "I am not a victim"". One cannot not afford to leave the illusory fast, so live there, but understand that much, "I'm not the victim." So, stay in the jail but take it for granted, or in the mind, that "I am not a victim." Ego is such - in very many ways he remains, in different shapes, in different ways, he remains. So, one should really be aware, always of understanding, and then, once you are complete, then there's nothing to worry about. What you see is illusion. If you understand 'myself' is illusion, then where does everything remain? People don't understand. Illusion is not-hing, how can it block you? How can nothing block you?

Q: For you it's an illusion, but for most people it's so real.

RM: When the master teaches you, you can get the experience. Experience brings everything. The boy is an ignorant boy, then he goes to school. Finally, he graduates from the college as a doctor, or a barrister, or an engineer. He gets the knowledge. In the same way here, also. Nothing is impossible in the world, bas. But everything has beco-me impossible in the world, because people are stealing for this. You are He, so what is impossible? You don't understand, you don't take it to heart. That is the impossibility.

Many people come and ask me, "Where's the master, and what to do?" Their master is not living at the moment and still they ask the question, "What can we do?" Somebo-dy said to me, "I have got three master's - Nisargadatta Master, Siddharameshwar Mas-ter and yourself also." This is a wrong thing of the mind. Only one sword can stay in one sheath. Two cannot stay. You must leave either that master and forget him. That is the main point, nothing else. So I was loving Lord Krishna like anything, but still I left him because I saw Siddharameshwar Maharaj. So I always say, "I saw him and he con-quered me." That is the main point in it. One should have great love for the master and great devotion also. What he says is correct, if you understand that. At that time, he taught meditation. He also told us, "You can see many Gods also. No harm - one can see, but there's no need for all this nonsense, this is also a trial." I was very young and so he has to tell me that. I never minded that thing also. Why should I mind? What he says is correct, no? I can say now myself, that "I am He now." Very strongly I can say that "I am He". I don't exist myself. I don't exist as a master also, not anything. I am He. Master is also ego. To be a master is also ego. Forget that!

Q: Yesterday, you also mentioned the saying, "This is not me, this is not me". I find that this is also a beautiful way.

RM: Yes, exactly. "I am not", you have to say that. "I am" is very thorny. 'I' never exists. In a dream you become something, you become 'I', no? When you awake, you say, "Oh it was wrong." So this (waking state) is a very long dream. So, seeing the mas-ter is required, so that then after you, yourself have the understanding and will say, "Oh, this is all illusion, why to worry?" It is very easy and very hard also, both ways. If the mind accepts, then it is very easy. Thinking should be changed, nothing else! The track of the mind - the mind is derailed, like a train. Put it on the right track, and then it goes!

Q: Could you explain to us what the significance of the pilgrimage is for you?

R. M.: Significance means - Siddharameshwar Maharaj's last remains are kept there in Bagewadi. Then, what to do now? Bodily, he has left. So we go there and worship for sometime. He is everywhere, so there is nothing to worry about. Yourself is He. Still, there you have to make the duality to understand, to realise or cherish something. You follow me?

Crow

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 3832
Re: Entretiens avec Ranjit Maharaj
« Reply #4 on: Marzo 19, 2009, 09:45:31 am »
Q: So, it helps to make the understanding stronger?

RM.: Yes, yes, yes, understanding. It helps you more. When you go on the pigrima-ge, your thoughts all go away. Worldly thoughts also go away. All are the birds of the same feather there. So you worship there, you do many things, and that helps you. That's the meaning of the pilgrimage. And other things also. We also visited Chimmud, no? You can see how the pyre was built there - the man who made up his own pyre and then he slept over it and said, "When my breathing leaves me, light the fire." And still it stands today. It's about 18 feet high. It was built over a hundred years ago, a hundred years have passed away. So, your mind takes you, drags you there. And you also forget all the worldly affairs. What to do? So this is the only thing, nothing else. After unders-tanding, why does he go on a pilrimage? Where to go and where not to go? So he goes there. If you go to the cinema then all troubles come, no? Money is required, first.of all (laughter) Nothing is required to be with Him. That's the pilgrimage. So, we also visit my master's birthplace (Pathri), where he took the birth, and he achieved such Reality, which most people cannot understand.

Many saints also don't understand, I dare say now! Ramakrishna Parmahansa was there and some realised person met him. Ramakrishna told him that he was only wors-hipping Kali Kamata. A power, a Godess - her name was Kali. That person told Rama-krishna, " Take that photo and spit on it, then only can you realise." These are all world-ly affairs. Worshipping is also a worldly affair, no?. All of these things, forget them, and then you can understand your Self, "Who am I?". Otherwise you can't understand. So, my master also said, "Forget everybody." Idols also. When you go to church, Christ's body is not there, only the emblem is there, no? If you worship the emblem on-ly, then you will become only the emblem. You won't be He. But if you worship the Reality, then you become the Reality. Christ said, "I am God", and then his own disci-ples killed him. At that time people didn't have a very high intellectual capacity. Their caliber was very poor and so they could not accept what Christ said.. So they killed him. "How can he be God?" Understanding should come. So, Christ taught with understan-ding. He said at the end, "Oh my Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing. They kill my body, but they can not kill me." That's the meaning in it. In the same way, if anybody comes to you and says, "I'm going to kill you", you say, "Kill me! It is very good for me not to remain in the body because I am He". (giggles) As I have taken the birth I must remain in the body for a certain time.

So, never worry. Siddharameshwar Maharaj was the right person, he has given this understanding. So what to do now? So we do these pilgrimages, we go there and pray. What we pray here, we pray there as well. We are doing nothing more. It's just a diffe-rent way - we all go there at the same time. Then your mind can be dragged to that side (Reality), nothing else. So, for that purpose all these things are required.

The saint Tukaram, after he had understood the Reality, met together with some people who were going to Pandrapur, which is a pilgrimage place for Lord Krishna. One of them said to him, "Come on, Tukaram Maharaj, you have to come with us to Pandrapur." Then he said, "My Pandrapur is here now, not there". In this way, the un-derstanding comes and after there is nothing to do. No need. But what should one do as long as the body is there or many people are there? Many people cannot understand this. It is very difficult for them to understand. It is very easy, but people don't want things easy. They want the hard things. For example, you ask someone, "Where is your left ear?" He says, "Oh, it's here". (Maharaj reaches with his right arm over his head to his left ear). But if they do it this way, then? (Maharaj reaches with his left hand up to his left ear). It's called 'Dravidian Pranayam' (makes the first gesture, reaching over the head). Wrong things! Do it the easier way and say, "It is here!" In the same way, say "He is always here!" So Vitthoba, or Lord Krishna, or Siddharameshwar Maharaj, all are here. Know that everybody is He. When that understanding comes, then there is no need to do anything. But still, the realised person does it for the other people, to give them some satisfaction and understanding so that one day they too can understand, why not? All that is the meaning of the pilgrimage, nothing else. Otherwise, the pilgrimage has no meaning. He is everywhere, no? But his last bodily remains are kept there, so we go there and pray. Nothing else. But he has said, "Nothing is required." Okay, but still people cannot understand, so in order to give them some understanding, he goes with them and does everything. Nothing to worry. He does everything, no? Our master has told us, "You have to sing bhajans." I have sung four bhajans up to now. For the past 75 years, since I was twelve years old, I am doing that, what to do? And in that I relish! Nothing remains and no trouble comes to me. If I have a few hours to live - I'll do it! At night, any time - no harm. No bondage of time. If you feel trouble, a fever is coming, then sleep. But don't forget him. Get up afterwards when you feel better and sing that bhajan, and then afterwards sleep - everything will go off, nothing to worry.(giggles). That is his power. Your power means his power, nothing else. Understanding should come, nothing else. You do nothing for him, you do for your Self. Your Self is He. That's the main point in it, nothing else. Be He and do everything. You do everything already, so why not worship Him?

When we talk, we say, "Mine, yours, his, hers". After understanding also one has to say: "This is my share, this is your share". You have to say, no? So why should wors-hipping be forgotten? That is also ego, to say, "Now I have understood, so why should I worship anybody?" Ego comes back again. So, to take out the ego and to crush the ego, you have to do it and you can do it! What happens? You go to toilet, you eat, you drink, you sleep, you do everything. Why to worry? Nothing is there. When you worship, your mind becomes stronger and stronger and moves over to that side (Reality). Then finally you become He. Today you are He, but you don't know it. Your mind makes some ob-jections. Mind doesn't allow you to go to the Reality, because he knows that his death is there. So, he makes some objections, some points and drags you back, nothing else. So one should overcome the mind, nothing else. Forget your mind and make His mind your mind, the master's mind your mind. Then you can be He in a fraction of a second, why not? If acceptance comes, then what remains? But you don't accept it because your love for the illusion doesn't go. The love for the illusion is so strong, so we take people on the pilgrimage and get them do this and do that, and then they come round.

For example, if a boy doesn't do his homework, then? Sometimes you have to beat him, and sometimes you have to say to him, "We won't give you your lunch or dinner unless you do your homework". When he doesn't get lunch or dinner he says, "Oh, I have to do it!". In the same way here also, we have to do something. Nothing is requi-red, only if you understand that. But still, what the master says, do it, so that the ego never comes in. If you keep the door open, a thief must come in, no? But if you lock it, then nobody can come in. So when you sleep, you have to lock everything before you sleep. The thief sees that nothing is kept open so he can not come in. Thief is ego. Ot-herwise, ego is such a nonsense thing. Even after realising, sometimes it comes in the mind. As long as the body is there, mind will be there. When it troubles you, stop him and crush him.. So, that which troubles you, forget that always. Crush it within a frac-tion of a second. Don't have any mercy for it. One should forget himself. Forget himself means the wrong self. Then Reality opens and is there always. If you go out of this building then you are outside, and when you are in, everything comes upon you, what to do? Anyone can say, "You have trespassed". But when you are out, who can say that you have trespassed? "No, I have not trespassed ", he says. So he is always free. The mind should be kept free always. Keep your mind so strong, so that nothing can come in it. When that understanding comes then you are He, and then there is nothing to worry about. That is the main purpose of the pilgrimage. People can enjoy and at the same time understand, that's the main point. Enjoying and understanding come more and mo-re together. That is good, no? (laughs). Any more questions?

Q: Yes, one more. How do you see the world?

RM: (Laughs). How do you see a ghost? There's nothing there, so what is there to say? As long as the body is there, he acts, no doubt. He calls his mother 'mother', and his wife 'wife', but still he knows. If somebody asks him, "What is your name?", he gi-ves his name, but he knows, "I am not this." That clear cut understanding is required. Complete understanding is called 'That'. Be in 'That'. Yesterday, I said, "Be like a lotus leaf. You are produced in water, you live in water, but you are not touched by water." So stay in that way, nothing else. Nothing needs to be demolished. Why demolish anyt-hing? What are they? Why are they there, troubling you? In fact, they don't trouble you. You go in and get more troubles. This chair never says, "I am yours." You say, "It is my chair." So, who is at fault? Not the chair, but yourself. The chair says nothing. So, in that way you can see the world. He can stay in the world. He stays like a child, without any interest. So, Shankaracharya has given very nice words for this - " He stays in thoughtless Reality and in the thought He remains, but He knows he is a thought." In short, he plays with the illusion.

For example, if you play with a serpent, first take out his poisonous tooth and then play. Poisonous tooth is the only troubling point, no? So, it is all illusion and not true, and if you understand that it's all nothing, then you can play in it! What harms you? There is nothing! What will harm you? So, be just like a lotus leaf, always live in the life. A realised person does not fear death, he does not care for anything more, and he does not want anything. When he does not want anything, people bring things and put them before him, He says "No, I don't want". They insist and say, "No, you must take it!". Suppose you come home, and you say to your mother or wife, "I don't want to eat anything." They will ask, "What happened, why are you not eating?" They will ask you many questions. But suppose, instead you say, "Is my khana (meal) ready or not!?" They will respond,"Wait awhile, it will be ready soon". She responds very politely but inwardly she thinks, "It will be ready soon, and if you want it, you can have some, and if you don't want it then...." So, in the world, one should not expect anything. You must first know your Self in your heart. Otherwise, you will be a slave of the illusion. Want nothing, understand that, because there is nothing, it's not true!


Other Questioner : Maharaj, if it's all a dream, an illusion, then I am a dream figure in this illusion, is that correct ? If I am part of the dream do I have any control over what happens in the dream ?

RM: If you do not dream, then, how can a dream come to you? If you go to sleep, and if you take the dream as true then you do everything in the dream. Same way here also, if you take this as a dream, why to worry about it? You worry always for the dream. The dream should be like this or this way, it should go that way. The river does not worry where it gets to, it just flows. In the same way, after understanding, stays like this, never worrying. Whatever happens is okay. If bad things happen against him, he says, " It's okay, because it is my wish". It is your dream, no? You have taken birth in the dream, so you are bound in the dream. In a dream there is no law, for example, a plane can land in your bedroom. You can also do everything, so your power is so strong. A plane automatically lands in the room, and you experience this.

For example, here (waking state) if you want money, you first have to deposit it in the bank. But in a dream, if you want money, you can get the money immediately. You have to wait nine months here for a child, but in the dream, in the spur of the moment you can have a child. No need to wait nine months. All you have to do is say, "I want a child", and the child is there. The power is so strong. As you have become a body, your power is so synchronised, so small, that you cannot do anything. Now, we have to awa-ke your power, nothing else. What does the realised person do? He awakens your po-wer, which is sleeping. He awakens you and when you are awake, then the world beco-mes as small part of a sesame seed. The whole world, which was such a big world, is nothing but a part of a sesame seed, it is nothing. When understanding comes, then not-hing remains.

Q: Does the individual have discrimination power himself or does it come from the master?

RM: From the master. He teaches you because you do not know that one plus two is three. When you go to school, you understand. Now you can say that one plus two is three. An enlightened person says at once, "One plus two is three, I know !" So strongly, you say. Understanding should come. Master awakens your understanding. When you are sleeping, he gives you a force and he awakens you. If you are in a dream or if you are in trouble, somebody awakens you, "Get up! What happened? You are crying." You say, "No, no I did not know, I was not crying !" He was crying, but he did not know. Then he awakens and sees that nothing is there. All the time we are saying wrong things. Understanding should come in the mind. Mind should be awakened, nothing else. Mind is sleeping in ignorance, it takes everything for true and it acts in such a way that more ignorance comes to him.

In the same way, the master awakens you. He awakens your understanding and then you yourself can say "I am He". Because everybody is He. Except Him there is nobody in the world, world is full of Him. Except Him, nothing is there. What you see is He. It does not exist, but due to the body you feel the hardness of that (taps the chair). So I give the example, you're dreaming and in the dream somebody gives you a slap on the face. You feel the slap and immediately you awaken and find only pillows. You then realise, "Oh, it was nothing ! Nobody slapped me." In the dream, somebody kills you, "Ahhh, I am killed!" Then you wake up. "All is wrong, nobody was there." Then your fear goes away. Awakening brings no fear. One should be fearless. Then he becomes realised. 'Fearless' means, mind becomes completely naked - nothing is true. Even God will say, "Oh, he's He now - I cannot do anything for him." That is the power that comes in the mind, nothing else. All is that power, doing is nothing. Power of Reality is so strong. That which is not, you see everything here, but nothing is happening in Him. That is Reality. For example, you watch a film for three hours on a cinema screen. Then the film ends and the screen becomes blank. The screen doesn't scream, doesn't laugh, doesn't sing, but during the film everything appears on it. In the same way, here we ex-perience many things due to the mind becoming very objective. You see all the objects as true. At the moment the understanding comes, you see that everything is nothing, zero. That is the main point in it, nothing else. Mind should accept it. Once accepted by the mind then nothing remains, everything is zero and myself is Truth.

 

Satsang with Ranjit Maharaj


Cuestion: Would you say that Reality is silence reflecting Itself?

Ranjit Maharaj: You can see the space, you can observe the space, you can feel the space, but Reality is beyond space. Space is zero. No silence is there, no voice is there, no peace is there, no state is there. All these are conditional things. When you sleep, you feel happy, but here there is no happiness, take it for granted.
 
So silence is also not He (Reality), peace is not He. Action and reaction are opposite and equal, it is like that. He has got nothing. If anything would have been there, that would have been something other than Reality and not He. Nothing disturbs Him. Why doesn't It get disturbed? Because It doesn't exist. When you sleep, nothing exists. Then you feel peace there. Why? Because, for example, suppose a man is running in a race during the whole day. When he wins that race, he is sweating and breathing so much. But that is not the pleasure, winning is the pleasure. Nothing is required for Reality, otherwise that would have disturbed the Reality.

Q: Then, Reality is known by Itself only.

RM: That will do, at least. Otherwise, that is also not there. How can It see anyt-hing?

Q: It speaks for Itself.

RM: It doesn't speak also. Forget this point, it's easier. There's no experience in It. What experience have you got when you sleep? Is there is something there, some know-ledge or some power? Everything goes off. So, nothing is there and neither is knowled-ge. It's beyond knowledge and beyond zero. It's beyond ignorance and knowledge. Knowledge is a concept, nothing else. Just yesterday I said, "Darkness and light go to-gether." When a light goes off, then darkness is there. You have not to even call for that. And if you put on the light, darkness automatically goes off. You have not to say, "Plea-se guy, go out", because they are one. In the same way, knowledge and ignorance are both one. In my master's words, Siddharameshwar Maharaj, "Knowledge is the greatest ignorance." By knowledge, we know that which is nothing, and that is a trick, nothing else. One should know the trick. A magician does many quick movements, and everyt-hing disappears all of a sudden. Here, it is also the same. Master only teaches you this trick. There's no master and no aspirant in the Reality. Both are not there, they cannot remain. How can duality be there when there is completeness? When there is duality, there is incompleteness. Only 'Oneness' is complete. We have to use the word, 'One-ness'. Why? Because you see so many things, so you have to use the word 'Oneness'. But in Reality, there is neither peace, nor any state. 'Peace', 'state', 'samadhi' are only methods. They are the real poison, because they take you away from It, and as a result your ego becomes stronger and stronger.

Then the question may arise from the aspirant, "What should I do?" Do nothing! Words only go up to the space. Lord Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, "There, from where the words come, that is my Self. That is my Self." The same thing was said by Christ also, in the Bible, "Know thyself and you know the world." Go up to that point where thinking ends, go up to That, and there is the Self. So, I always call it, "Self wit-hout self". So, Self realisation is Self without self. As long as realising remains, self remains. The eyes have got the habit to see that which is not. You say, "This is a chair", but it is not. The child will say, "This is water." His parents will say, "No, no, it's called an ocean." They pour more ignorance into him. On the contrary, he is right, it's nothing but water. He submits to their instructions. Ignorant people will always like ignorance and will not like knowledge. In the Hindi scripts it is written, "Mind has got the curse not to hear the master." Mind doesn't like it. All the people around you are just full of ignorance and they want to support their ignorance. They don't want to get rid of their ignorance. People don't like to go and see a saint and also don't like it when other people go because they're afraid to lose a person from their circle. The saint takes you up to That, up to the Reality and says, "Understand yourself." This is the position.

Q: But life springs out from Reality. Isn't life under the authority of Reality?

RM: The whole dream reflects from where? From zero. It doesn't reflect from Reali-ty, it reflects from zero. In ignorance, you forget the Reality and then something comes up. In sleep we forget everything, but when we wake up, everything returns at once, in a fraction of a second. So, from where does it come? Not from Him. If it had come from There, it would have been the Reality and if so, then the world ends there.

Q: It could be a game for Reality to express itself in the manifestation.

RM: It's a trick. Here at zero, you can dream up whatever you wish, anything. You may never expect to get something, but still you may perhaps get it. It has not come from you - everything which is there has come out from this ignorance. Ignorance has come about by hearing. Now, you have to hear the master and follow what he says, and then all ignorance goes off. Go to the master and tell him, "Put my name on your reco-rd." You go to school and put the name of the boy in the school, no? And then, he has to go to the school and learn. It's the same way here, also. One should go to the master and what he says, accept it. If you accept it, then you can achieve the goal very fast, within a fraction of a second. Why not?

Q: I would like to know about death. I am not afraid of death myself, but I have so-me relatives who are. So, how am I to relate to them?

RM: Let them understand what they understand. You first understand yourself that death is nothing. If you teach them, they won't hear you. But still you will know your-self, "I am birthless, I am deathless. I have never taken a birth and I will never die." Keep that knowledge in your mind. If somebody you know is dying then tell them, "Don't fear. Don't fear. Die." (Laughs) You should say in your mind, "When you die, don't worry, because all fear also goes off." For example, a serpent is there. Take his poisonous tooth out and play with him. Then, he is not going to do anything with you, no? Let people say, "Oh, watch out, you are playing with a serpent!" You can say to them, "Okay, I'm playing. Do you want to play also?" They all won't do it, because they are in fear. You know that you have taken out the poisonous tooth of the serpent and so it's not going to do any harm to you. Death is nothing. Everyday, when you sleep it's like a small death, and you don't fear that death because you know that you will get up tomorrow. But suppose you die in the sleep, then what to do? Why to fear? Nothing is there. Everything is an illusion. Keep your mind in that fearless state only. Let others have fear. Just as the poisonous tooth is taken out, in the same way, play with the world, there is no harm. It won't affect your mind. Live fearlessly - no death, no fear, knowing that, "I am that real power."

Q: Is it your role to remove the thorn of ego, and if so, can you help me to remove this thorn?

RM.: "Take out the thorn". That is the help which I give. Otherwise, how can I help you? You have to take out your own things. I can tell you, but you have to take it out. It doesn't exist, take it for granted. It doesn't exist, but you feel its existence. You don't leave it, that's the difficulty. What to do? You have fear of what will happen. Nothing else is going to happen. Nothing has happened up to now, so what is going to happen now? So, to take out the ego, always say, "I know nothing. I don't see, I don't hear, I don't eat, I don't sleep, I don't walk. I do nothing." Ego must go. For example, the doctor gives you medicine. You cannot cure the disease unless you leave the disease. After some time, the doctor again comes to see if you are better and you say to him, "Oh, I'm still not well." What can he do if you don't take the medicine, tell me? So, to take out the ego say, "I do nothing. I don't sleep, I don't speak, I don't do anything. 'I' is not the-re." That is a practise. You can do it.

Q: In your bhajans (devotional singing), what concept do you worship, Maharaj?

RM: We worship That which is conceptless and thoughtless. The whole essence of worship is to make your mind stronger towards the side of Reality . My guru, Sidd-harameshwar Maharaj, and his master, Bhausaheb Maharaj from Karnataka, were gurus from Sholapur. Bhausaheb Maharaj started this lineage and has kept full wisdom in it, full understanding. There are many saints in India, and they've written so many things. So, he has gathered the highest thoughts about the Reality. You cannot understand it because it is in the Marathi language, so there is a difficulty. Otherwise, you would see that every word has got a very strong meaning of the Reality. When you see a movie, for example, and if you like a song in the movie, then after coming home you sing that song, over and over again. So, by singing the bhajans, you remain in that circle of Reali-ty, nothing else. No concept. When a concept is known, how do you worship a concept? We keep Siddharameshwar Maharaj's photo only, but he is here (holding his chest) and not up there on the wall. People do things which they don't know. When you say, 'Christ', people cross themselves. This means that Christ is here and not there. What to do? But most feel He is there. That is ignorance. Knowing that, "I am not there", is the practise. For example, if you leave the room, then you are out of the room, otherwise, you remain in the room. So, you should leave the room. That's the only thing you have to do. It depends upon you. The master is there to guide you, nothing else.

Q: I live in fear and I do not dare to live my life. What should I do to overcome this fear?

RM.: Fear is in human nature, it is always there. Everybody has got fear, even the animals, because they understand that "I am the body". Body is always fearing and mind is the greatest factor in it. Mind is nothing but your own concept. A concept is know-ledge also, so fear always comes into the mind due to the unsteadiness of the world. Every minute is changing. That which is not steady, the mind always has fear for that. Your own life is also nothing - it depends only on your own breathing. As long as you breathe everything is there. Breathing is nothing but wind and wind is never steady. Wind has got both power and knowledge. And so light is always in fear of darkness. Why fear darkness, because light and darkness both go together? Where there is light, there is darkness - if darkness is there, light is there , so they are not steady. Therefore, one always has fear, as you say. If you go beyond darkness or beyond knowledge, then there is no fear at all. For example, a cinema screen has no fear of any picture, because it is steady. So, that which is not steady, it always has fear. Your mind changes at every moment, no?

Human beings have got fear of even the smallest insects - insects, birds and germs. There are so many kinds of germs, bacteria. Also, all kinds of insects are there because power is life, nothing else. So, man always has got the fear of nothing but death. There are five elements in the world - sky, fire, water, earth, wind - all come from the sky. Still, all of them have got an exactly opposite entity - sky always traps the wind, wind always grabs fire, fire always grabs water, and water can dissolve earth at any moment. That which is transitory has always got the fear. Your thoughts and concepts are transi-tory, every moment you change your thoughts and concepts. So, one is always in fear. Body is made up of the five elements, nothing else, and one power is there, chetana. So they all work together, because the power is there. So, mind is nothing but that power in a subtle form, and the power is nothing but knowledge. It is automatic, so fear must be there. For example,there are so many insects, so many things in the world. You fear everybody, what can you do? Because you want your body to remain intact. Fear is al-ways there, so to work on fear one should know his own Self. It is easy, and is called Self-realisation. So, one should not fear if he realises that, "I am beyond zero or sky".

Krishna says to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, who was his aspirant, "Oh Arjuna, all your actions limit you and are useless unless you know your Self." So to get out of the fear, you go to the church, pray to God, and the Hindus go to the temples and pray. Fear itself is the mind. Worshipping, reading many, many philosophical books, all these things make your mind more complicated, and that complication always brings more fear. So the mind cannot remain steady. If your mind knows its own source or its own beginning, only then can it be happy. So fear is that. So one can overcome fear, why not? When there is nothing, your fear is always more. For example, if you are in a lone-ly place, then you have lots of fear. Loneliness is nothing but space. So go beyond space by the grace of the master. Only by the understanding given by the master you can pe-netrate the sky and go beyond the sky, beyond the space. As long as body is there, fear has to be there, nothing else. If you want to be fearless, be what is fearless, because it has no end. Final Reality has no end and no beginning. That which has got a start or an end has some fear, but if It has no start, how can it have an end? It is limitless nothing else. It is so subtle that all thoughts and concepts stop there. They cannot enter there. So as I said before, the cinema screen has nothing to worry about. Let any pictures come - he shows them, he does everything, yet he is fearless. The screen does not get touched, therefore it is fearless. If you get touched, then fear comes. Suppose you see a rope in the darkness, and you take it for a serpent at once. Therefore, you are so afraid of it. If the light is turned on, then all the fear goes away when you see that it is only a rope. Understanding of the Self erases all fears, because it is all Oneness, so there is no duali-ty in it. Duality has fear, oneness has no fear.

Q: It is difficult for me to have an aim, and to go to the end of my being. I feel emp-ty, I have no energy and have no fixed aim in life.

RM: Aim is of the mind and you are not the mind. You are the power, so why can you not go up to the power? Aim and power are different things. One should not feel like this. You think you are the mind and the body, so therefore you say, "I am not ca-pable of reaching Reality". It is not the case, they are both different. Like light and elec-tricity, they are quite different. Electricity has no light, but because of such contrivances it gives light. So, mind is not perfect, thought is not perfect, but your Self, the power which is in you is completely perfect. Wherever it is, it is perfect, so why would it not be perfect in you? It is perfect in every place. Due to identity of the body and mind, you say that you are not perfect. Everything disappears in deep sleep, so why can you not go to the end of your Self? From where does this power start, find out the source, and that is your Self. There, there is no self. But if you say the 'body', then you have to say the 'self'. There is no self in It, there is no individuality in It, there is also no duality in It. So one can understand the final Reality through the guidance of the master. It depends upon the master, whether he gives you the right direction to understand. If the address is wrong, then you cannot reach the destination. The master should be perfect, then only can he give the real thoughts or points of that Reality. It is easy for one to understand, but it is very difficult to make others understand. So, one should not think in that way. For example, you always go to the end of yourself if you do not know what to do. As in sleep, you go to the end of your self. But you do not know, so you come back with igno-rance. You then say, "I was in a void" or "I was in complete ignorance". Reality is al-ready there but you do not know that due to the ignorance of the mind. It pervades eve-rywhere and anywhere. Without Him nothing can be done. Everything is He. The star-ting point is the end, nothing else. From where you start, always go to that without any effort. For example, lava comes out from the center of the Earth, it covers the surface and finally it returns back to the center. So, Christ also said, "Thou art dust - you eat dust and you die in dust." Go beyond that. You are not an object, neither a body nor a mind, so go to the end of all these things, from where they arise and from where they end. Then one can understand, why not?

The owner of a house knows every corner of his house, so he has nothing to worry about. He knows where everything is. In the same way, one should go to the end, from where everything starts. Everybody is He. Apart from That, there is nothing. So one can understand, one must understand. Remove the screen of ignorance which has come upon you. Take away the veil of ignorance. Take off the cloth from in front of the light, and instantly the light is there! One can go to the end. Everyday, when you sleep, you go to the end. There you have to find out your Self. 'Finding out' means what? Forget your mind, forget your thoughts and forget your self. He is there.

Q: Does admitting that one is powerless help?

RM: Powerless? How can it be, because you are that real power? But ego is power-less, because it has no entity at all. If it has no entity, how can it have power? What can you write to one who has not taken the birth? You can't! Ego, having no entity, has no power. The moon doesn't produce light, but it gives light that comes from the sun. In the same way, ego also is just like the moon. The power which is inside the ego gives light to him and he (ego) says, "I am there, power is not at all there, it has no entity." So why cannot one shade out, erase the ego which has no entity? One who has not taken the birth, you can't take anything to him, no? In the same way, why worry about that which has no entity? Go to the end. One can. Only your ego does not allow you to go there. Ego knows that if you see your Self or the end of illusion, then it will never remain the-re and nobody will think of it. Don't think that you cannot go there! It's only the weak-ness of your mind that says, "I cannot understand Him". It's like a light bulb which shi-nes light and says, "I produce the light". It cannot understand electricity. When you do not think that you are the light bulb, then the power is there. If one can go to the end, from where the light comes from, his entity will be nowhere. All the pictures which you see on the cinema screen and the sounds you hear - if you want to know from where they come, after, will the screen remain? So one can go, why not? Ignorance of mind says it cannot go. 'Mind' means thinking, and thinking cannot approach the thoughtless Reality. So therefore the mind says that it is impossible, doesn't it? Thinking goes off and He remains.

Q: You say it is through discrimination that one can destroy the mind. But what about blocked emotions, fears or emotional blocks which go back to childhood and of which we are not always aware? What should one do to free oneself from them?

RM: You have to keep going, hurdles must be there, but the hurdles should be over-taken. For example, a horse race is going on and there are many hurdles on the track. One should overcome the problems, why not? A problem is a thought. From your child-hood, you must have had many thoughts, no? Who has given you those thoughts? Your father, your mother and then your circle of friends. All those thoughts have come upon you from ignorant people, so what can they give you? What can darkness give? Tell me. Nothing! What can you find out in darkness? Nothing! In the same way here, you have to discover that which is nothing. All your thoughts are an illusion, not at all true. All have come to you due to ignorance and now have become a habit. If you think about your thoughts, then the illusion remains. But if you go to the source from where the thoughts arise, the starting point, if you go up to that source then the thoughts dissolves! You never think of the Reality, the source, you always think of other things. You never think of your thoughts and from where do they come. All bondages are only mind bon-dages, and you have borrowed them. Money that is borrowed is not yours, isn't it? In the same way, you've borrowed the thoughts of others and taken them as your bondage, how can it be? Throw off that bondage, give the money back to the creditor, and then you are free of the debt. You have to be free of the debt, no? In the same way, you have taken the bondages of others on you. Throw that off! Who stops you? You do not want to throw them away, what to do?

Q: Because of fear.

RM: Fear is ignorance, what to do? Fear is nothing! Why do you have fear, tell me? Is it due to the ego, tell me? Are you afraid of what people will say?

Q: Fear of conflict. I'm afraid of opposing others.

RM: Then, you can't get the goal. Fear has no entity. If you take it for real, then how can you go to the thoughtless Reality? Everybody is naked under their clothes, everybo-dy knows, no? Why to fear? I don't understand. If the master is real and what he says is true, then perhaps "fears can be liars, and hopes can be illusions". Fears can be liars, so how can they have any entity? Hopes also have no entity. What can harm you if you've got a strong master? And that master should be your mind!. In India, we have a saying in Hindi, "One who is fearless, even the Gods fear him." Even the Gods fear you, so why should you fear anything? Be naked! Throw off everything and then nothing can touch you, nothing can stop you. When the fears come in the way, throw them off! You are He, take it for granted.

Climb the 44 steps, and you must get to the room, no? If there are 44 steps to go up to the second floor, and you climb them all, then you must get to the second floor, no? Or if you take the lift, you will also get there, who can stop you? So, which fears can stop you? Fears are nothing. When the ego does not want to see his own Self, then the fears arise. So, the ego does not allow you, that's all. What you know today and what you are going to know tomorrow is always the same. Knowledge never changes. Due to ignorance, the effects differ. Just as I said before - keep the cover on the light, then there will be darkness. Take off the cover, and the light returns.

Q: Maharaj, is there a special technique to remove the veil? Or is it sufficient to have much courage and be brave in the face of these fears, so that they naturally disappear?

RM: One should be brave to live. When you are brave, then fear does not remain. Be brave and have faith in the master. What he says, do it. You can get it, because you are He. To get your Self, how much time does it take? If someone calls your name, you immediately put your hand up. How much time does it takes for you to respond? Instan-tly you do it. So, what you are, what you say is the final Reality, is you. How much time does it take? Throw off the apron (veil). You do not want to throw off the apron, what to do? Anyway, Reality cannot be seen, what to do? It is very easy to leave that which is nothing and it is very difficult to see that which is there. That you have forgotten and therefore you get troubles. In the same way, it is very easy, don't worry. One should have full faith himself. Here, the mind always asks questions. For example, in the army they say, "You should not ask any questions, you should not make any reply, but you should only do your duty and die". These are the orders for the military, and it's the sa-me here also. (laughs) Master says, "Die! Experience your own death!" Saint Tukaram said, "I saw my death and I was very, very happy. That happiness I could not describe". One should see the end of his self, self is the mind. In India we have a custom - on the 13th day after someone dies, sweets are given to all the relatives. What is the meaning of it? There must be a meaning, no? It is - "He is not dead, he never dies". They do not understand this, but still the meaning is that, and they just follow the custom. So, why not give sweets to all? Because I am not dying, I am ever living, if you understand. When the body goes, only the body or ego has fear. So if it goes then give sweets to all!


Crow

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 3832
Re: Entretiens avec Ranjit Maharaj
« Reply #5 on: Marzo 19, 2009, 09:45:59 am »
A person in jail always counts how many days remain until he gets out. In the same way here also, people don't understand but when the first birthday comes, sweets are given. All birthdays are celebrated by giving sweets. They think that the time has come for the bondage to go away. Old age is sure to come and the bondage is going off, so one celebrates the birthdays. One year less to live from your life, but even so, you still celebrate because the bondage of the body is now ending. Some people enjoy birthdays. One year is short, but still it is one year less in the illusion. Suppose you are 25 years old and if your life is 100 years, then you only have 75 years remaining. When you see that you've lost 25 years, you should be happy and give sweets to all, because your bon-dage is going to end very fast! So, always live fearlessly and have your own pleasure.

Anything which you think of is always something which doesn't exist, because eve-rything is He only. Except Him, there is nothing in the world. Whatever thought or con-cept you think of creates something other than what He is. When thinking ends, what happens? You go into zero. In the world, you spend your time only thinking of so many things, so many problems, whatever it may be. But still, when the minds sleeps, you forget everything. Thoughts continually come into the mind. For example, when 'I' stops seeing, then the space appears. Otherwise, there is no colour at all, even no sky colour. Once the vision ends, then only is there colour. So, what you see and perceive is in you and not outside of you. You are not the body, take it for granted. When the mind takes up a thought and gets attached to it, then everything is seen.

Reality prevails everywhere and apart from Reality there is nothing. It is there, eve-rywhere and anywhere. The greatest saint in the last thousand years, Shankaracharya, has said, "There is Oneness. There is no duality in the world." For example, if someone drinks some alcohol, the effects must come to him, no? He then says anything he likes. And when the kick goes out, he then becomes sober again. Afterwards, if you ask him, "Did you say this?", he'll say, "Oh, I don't know anything." The kick of ignorance ma-kes everything, brings everything. Take the kick out, then ignorance can not remain, why to worry?

The great saint, Ramdas Maharaj said, "What you say is there, has gone. That which is not, is always not. What is there to say about it?" So, that which has been has gone, and that which has not been has also gone. For example, someone feels some steel against his face. It's there, he feels something for a short time and then it's not there. Both have gone. Again, this is just like knowledge and ignorance. They are both there, then their absence has come, and after their absence, does anything remain? Nothing is there, but still He is there. You have to use so many words to explain this. It is so subtle. Little touches make all of consciousness come. Finally, you are That. Experience It in this way. Be That and remain like That only.

In the same way, this world is not at all there. You feel that it exists, what to do? Is anything here true? Nothing is! If you realise this, then nothing remains for you. It's all a big zero! The world comes from zero and ends in zero! The whole is ending in zero. When you sleep, does the world disappear or not? Sleeping means that you can't see the world. You have to close your eyes to fall asleep and then you have dreams. That is also imagination. In a dream, a poor man becomes a rich person and a rich person becomes the poorest person. For example, there was a king who became a beggar in the dream. So he cursed God, "What is this? Nobody gives me alms. Everybody abuses me and says bad things to me. What wrong have I done, I don't know?". God replies to him, "You came into this dream, that is the wrong thing which you have done. Also, you are dreaming wrong things which you feel are true". But when a master comes and says, "Oh, the one who is sleeping is a king", then he will play his part very nicely or not? Very nicely he will play his part. He tells the king that it's only a dream so that the king knows, "In the dream I am a beggar and when I awake from this dream, I will be a king". In the same way here also, master tells you that, "You are He", but you cannot accept this. But suppose if you dare to understand the master thoroughly, then? Then the world becomes heaven. For the one who understands, the world is heaven.

When something pleasant happens to someone who understand, he says, "Oh, very good". And when somebody dies, he says, "Oh, he's gone". He doesn't laugh, why? Be-cause other people would be troubled by his laughter. But still, he knows that nothing has happened. The five elements return to the five elements and the power returns to the power, and then nothing remains! What is there? Who has gone? The one who came and who went away, his name is written on the tombstone. They write, "so-and-so died". He may have been 50 years old, or 80 years old or a 100 years old. If he was a 100 years old, you say, "Oh, it was his time to go". If he was only 30 years old then you too feel death, because you feel that death can come at any time. What to do? So dying can hap-pen so easily, but one should not feel that they will die. When the body dies you don't die yourself. You feel that "I die," and then all those troubles come to you. But in fact, when one dies, all those troubles are going to end, no? No troubles remain for him, he's out of all troubles.

Q: So Maharaj, if you say it is not true, that means that you, in the body and the mind, are not true also.

RM: Oh yes! It is not true! What I think is also not true. "I don't think", is the main point in it. Why think about wrong things? Why think about things which don't even exist? People think because they are in ignorance. They think, "Oh, the world is going on now, what will happen to me?" A man is having his 70th birthday and he feels that if he dies tomorrow, what will happen? He dies and others continue to enjoy! All that de-pends upon your mind.

Q: So if it is not true, why think about it?

RM: If you think like that it's very good. Then you're out of the world. You are in the world but out of the world. That is the beauty of it. If you say this is not my house, then you have no troubles. You can put nails anywhere you like. But if you say,"It's my house", then you say "Oh, this wall has become bad. I should not put nails in it." You restrict yourself. Though it is wrong, still you restrict yourself. "Oh, how can I do it? It's my house". If you have no house then you can do anything here, because you know that nothing is going to happen. At the most, the walls might fall down. In this way unders-tand. When you say it is mine then it troubles you. 'Me' and 'mine' is the trouble. M.I.N.E. - mine- That's called aham and mamata. So Kabir simply says, " Everything dies".

Q: Well, if I am not true, then death can't be true.

RM: Death is not true. Yes, yes.

Q: So, okay, that takes care of it all.

RM: Kabir says, " First, the mind dissolves. Then, the love for somebody ends. And, finally, all bodies disappear."

Q: So, that's freedom?

RM: Freedom. Exactly! The wish for a body, the strong desire for a body doesn't allow you to die. You then take another body. This body is going now, so what to do? So, you try to get another body. With that wish, you will die, and then you must get another body. Whatever body you get, it will get sick. Perhaps you may even become a mosquito or a bug. But he wants something, anyway. So, one should understand the beauty of the thoughts. The mind is a wonderful thing I tell you. It's so strong! It wants so many things. So you ask your mind, I always say, ask your mind, "What don't you want?" He says, "I want everything. I don't know what I don't want?". But the realised persons say, "I don't want anything because it's not true." When it is not true, why to take it? People are always running after things. For example, a deer runs after a mirage thinking it's water, no? If you say, "Oh, there is no water", the deer will think that you are a foolish person. "I can see the water, so what do you mean by that?", he says. He sees by his eyes that it's water, but it's a mirage. In the same way, people are running after their wish only. It's a desire, a strong desire of the mind. When you take birth, it's because you want to. So many births you have taken, gone there and come back again. That's called desire, a strong desire, or in our language it is called vasana. But if you understand that this world is not true, then every choice comes to you. Say it is not true. This is very difficult to say.

Q: It's easy to say, Maharaj, but it's difficult to practice.

RM: No, no! If you no longer want anything, then what is there to practice, tell me? You want something, so you are after it. When one doesn't want anything, then what remains for him, tell me? If you have child, a wife and everything, then some trouble comes to you. For me, for example, there's no trouble. I never ask anything to anybody. Why ask? Why beg? Let this body go to hell, I don't care! Every moment, you care for the body, what to do? Everybody cares for their body. If you don't care for the body, then the body becomes your slave. Then, whatever you want, the body will do it. "Come on!" It's really a very good thing if you understand this. Then, you are out of the clutch of the thoughts. When you're out of the clutch of the thoughts, then your power becomes so strong. Not to worry for anything. In Marathi there is a saying, " If I sleep on this cot, my God is there". He must give me everything to eat there. Everywhere is your power. Develop your power. If that power is there, then you no longer want anything. Why should you want?

Eyes want to see good things. Nose wants to smell very good things. "Oh, these are very fragrant flowers!" You want to eat many things, as well. "Oh, it's very tasty! One must eat." And all that makes more trouble for you. So, eat if you get it. Eat! Otherwise say, "I don't want anything". Don't be a slave. You become the slave of the thoughts, and the mind works and rules upon you. The mind is ruling you, always. So the best thing is to understand that one should practice against the mind. For example, the mind wants to drink something, brandy or whisky. Say, "No! I'm not going to drink". If the mind doesn't want to do anything, then say, "Come on, we're going to a party, or going walking". That is the practice you have to do. Then the mind becomes your slave in anything. Mind then says, "What I say you won't do it, so what is the use of it?" He agrees with you everywhere. And that is happiness or not? When the mind agrees, huh? The mind should agree, but he never wants to agree with anybody. So you have to think in this way and make your mind a slave. When it becomes a slave, then no thoughts come to you. What is the meaning of the thoughts? Due to the mind, thoughts come. It's better to say, "I don't want anything". If you don't want anything, then everybody forces you to have.

Mind is a wonderful factor. Try to understand your mind. When you understand it, it becomes a friend and finally dies itself giving you the Reality. Mind is the only factor that creates your bondage. I only want to say that if you understand that, "I don't exist," then everything is happiness. If you exist, then so many troubles come. What to do? Be out of it. Do everything! I don't say no. Do everything, but understand it's not true! Ha-ve that much courage. The mind has no value because it is not true. So why to worry? Say, it's not true. When the state of your mind changes, then trouble comes. Try to un-derstand. Don't worry for anything. If the mind accepts this, then what remains? Not-hing remains. People are unnecessarily worrying for the mind, but the mind doesn't care for you. If you understand in this way, then all questions are solved. You feel at ease. For example, if you have got a disease and you don't take your medicine, then are your troubles solved or not? Body will die. Let it die. Why care for it? All questions are sol-ved then. The mind is a wonderful thing. Liberation and bondage are the mind's work. You are ever liberated and never in bondage.

Q: What happens, Maharaj, is that when it becomes clear to me that I don't exist, I instantly lose interest in everything. To me nothing seems important.

RM: And as long as you exist?

Q: Everything is important.

RM: Yes, yes, you feel interest in it. Say that, "I don't exist". Then all thoughts go off, they don't remain for a man with such a strong will. It takes a strong will, no? The main point in it is that everybody fears death. And when you fear death you want to do everything for your body. But one who doesn't fear death, then?

Q: Then the doing and not doing doesn't remain important to him, Maharaj.

RM: For him, it doesn't remain. It's okay! He doesn't go against the death thought. He doesn't care. He never cares for anybody. Why? Why care for anybody? People want to exist, no? What good is their existence, your existence?

Q: Maharaj, since the mind appears to be the cause of the world, one does not really have to marry and have children to have troubles. One can be without them and still have enough troubles.

RM: So there is the story where golden, wooden ladoos (sweets) are made and they have a very nice colour. Someone says, "Oh, if you eat them you will lose all your teeth". But still he says, "They're very attractive! I want to eat them." He knows they are made from wood, and that he might lose his teeth, but he can't help it. What to do? So one should understand. World is not true! One who understands, then it's okay. If you half understand, then you are lost in heaven. The mind is of a very different type. Try to understand. Understanding brings everything. If you understand, then nothing is true and nothing is false. So, someone who says that the world is true and someone who says that it's not true, in fact, both are wrong.

Q: This is interesting, Maharaj. Why are both wrong?

RM: Both are wrong. Why say anything about something that doesn't exist? Nothing is always nothing. Why even take any pride and say, "I've renounced the world, and I've done this and I've done that"? World itself is zero. Why should you say anything about zero? But still ego makes you say, "Oh, I know! World is not true, why should I wo-rry?" Ego brings all this. Ego is a very wretched chap. It gets in the way. So many 'saints' are cheating themselves. What to do? They find nothing There. They come back and they teach wrong things to others. They say, "Do this and you'll get it". So people do this and do that. Their is a saying, "The saw of Kashi (Benares) cuts both ways". Worldly things are of the same way as the saw - if you don't want the world, it troubles you, and if you want the world, it also troubles you. What to do? Be neutral and say, " I don't want anything".

Q: Or be in it and be troubled, Maharaj.

RM: Yes. If there is a house, then the earthquake comes and it falls, and you have troubles. But if there is no house, then? Life is like gambling. What to do? One doesn't know anything. He's going to die tomorrow, or going to live for 100 years, nobody knows. So life is like gambling, no? He plays with his life. Play in such a way so that the dice don't remain. No dice, then no player.

Understanding should come. That's the main point. If you don't understand, then? So one who says that, "The world is not true", he's also false. And one who says that, " The world is true", he's also false. Both are wrong. Which is not, why to talk about it? Why to say anything about that? When you say, "Oh I know, the world is zero. I've renoun-ced the world." What have you actually done? Nothing! So Siddharameshwar Maharaj told us, "Renounce the renouncing. Forget the renouncing. Renouncing is ego." Try to understand the master! Unless you understand the master, it's very difficult to go with Him. If the understanding comes, then everything is okay Without understanding, it's very difficult. Don't do anything.

Q: So Maharaj, you're saying that it doesn't exist, so therefore it can be neither true nor false. So be in it, and yet believe that it's neither true nor false. So eat, but unders-tand you are not the eater.

RM: Yes. That's the main point. If you are not the eater, then who will be troubled? Body may get the trouble, what to do? Doing is worst. Know that, "I don't do anything." If you understand this, then you are free and by doing also you are free.

Q: Then all actions are equal?

RM: Equal. Nothing else. Doing and not doing, both are equal for Him.

Q: And doing this or that?

RM: It's not true! Both are wrong! So, Tukaram was asked, "Why do you do bad things to this woman?" He replied,"Oh, it's Brahman (God)". He used the word, "Vitthal (God)". But they asked, " But wasn't it you who has done this?" He again replied, "Vitt-hal." Then they said that this man is not liable for the prosecution. He says everything is Vitthal. But he [Tukaram] knew that the one who did wrong things to the woman is He himself, and the one who gives the evidence is also He himself. So both are wrong. So there's nothing else to say. Both don't exist. "I have not done and I have done also". Both are out of the question and when you are out of the question, then there is no exa-mination and no result.

Q: Maharaj, can reflection replace meditation?

RM: It's better to go by the easiest way. Why go by the thorny way? You can medi-tate, even for twelve hours. You must get it, no harm. And then finally, you have to be-come your own master. Then meditation will submerge into Reality. So, why to go by the hard way? (Maharaj makes a gesture to touch his left ear by making his right hand wind around the back of his head, and then he brings his left hand to touch his left ear to show a more direct way). Meditation is just the beginning, in order to make the mind more subtle. When it becomes subtle, then nothing is required. Only thinking comes. If a man is lame, with one stick he can walk, but by using two sticks, he can walk even faster. So keep both and go ahead very fast!


Q: I want to ask if Maharaj has practised the mantra since he gives us one?

RM: (Laughs). Siddharameshwar Maharaj gave the mantra and I practised it, becau-se it was his order. If master says one plus two is three, I have to believe it. In that way I was doing it and practise it still now. Before and now, but in different ways. Before un-derstanding, you have to act according to the master's choice, and after understanding you have to act according to your choice. If one wants to become a doctor, he first stu-dies and then he practises. After sometime, he becomes a master at it. So his practise is quite different then. Unless he kills a lot of patients he cannot be a good doctor. In the same way, experience brings many, many things. His grace is with you, He is with you. Master is with you, don't worry. One should have that much faith. So all this honour goes to him and not to me, take it for granted! What is there? What is practising? Un-derstanding is practising, nothing else. Doctor says, "Take this dose of medicine", and if you practise, you will be okay the next day. If you don't take it, then what will happen? You put full faith in the doctor, no? Here also, full faith is required, nothing else.

Q: Instead of practising the mantra, can one contemplate the teachings? Is the bene-fit the same?

RM: You must meditate in the beginning. Then your caliber becomes very subtle, your caliber of understanding becomes very subtle. So, then you can practise nicely what the master says. He teaches you and you have to practise that. I agree. Having faith and practising meditation helps you very fast. Master says 12 plus 3 is 15. The boy has got a high caliber of understanding and shows different ways of arriving at 15. "19 mi-nus 4 also can also equal 15", he says. In that way, you can think it over more and more. So, the mind should be subtle, therefore you have to meditate and keep your mind a little steady at that time, avoiding all these outside circumstances. Be in it only. And then your mind becomes automatically subtle. Before when one first said that one plus two is three, one had to cram up. No need for you to cram up, now. Your caliber of inte-lligence becomes subtle through understanding, one plus two is three, what is there? In the same way, when meditating you can understand what the master says in a very, very different way. There are many ways you can understand - there is 4 plus 5 is 9, and 8 plus 1 is also 9. In that way you can understand. What he says, and if you've got full faith in him, what wrong is there,? You can go very fast in it and you can meditate nice-ly also. Meditation is a step only, the first step, then you have to go ahead. You have not to only meditate your whole life. You can go ahead by thinking also, why not? So your mind should be sharpened, by meditation and you can understand by carrying on with the teachings. Thinking over it more and more, you will get more involved, you will penetrate into it, and that will be yours. In the beginning, both cramming and meditation is required, take it for granted.

Q: So, meditation, is the repeating of the mantra?

RM: Exactly, one plus two is three, no? You have to cram up again and again. By chanting that in your mind, you can overcome the illusion, why not? By meditation also, one can achieve the Reality. Don't say that it's a very lengthy process. My master's mas-ter, Bhausaheb Maharaj, he was for meditation. Then Siddharameshwar Maharaj found out from his teaching that by thinking, one can also go. Life is very short, so at least find out the easiest way to go to It. By your own thinking you have become a 'man' or 'woman' or a 'human being' through ignorance. By understanding, by thinking you can correct that, why not? So in the scriptures, it is written that there are two ways - one is called the 'ant's' way and other is called 'bird's' way. An ant will take a very long time to go up a tree, perhaps even several births. Whereas a bird can fly from one tree to anot-her very easily, in a fraction of a second. So by thinking one can go, it is very easy. But that which is very easy is also very hard. Here, a change of mind is required, nothing else. The mind should be changed, mind means thinking. Your father and mother have taught you to think through ignorance only. It is not your fault, you have just been given lessons like that. So the master says, "All this is wrong and what I say is correct" By thinking you have become a slave, and by thinking you can become the master. So my master was giving mantra and asking us to do meditation also and then he gave us lectu-res and sermons. So it was very easy for us. Don't try to escape the meditation! (laughs).